Lockjaw rotation shattered by Faceless - Full FFA time begins?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by rekais910, Oct 1, 2015.

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  1. Reap Elder

    I honestly don't think it would end like that if FI disappeared. For as much as Dima catches, I honestly don't see him ruling with an iron fist.
    rekais910 likes this.
  2. AlmarsGuides Augur


    Don't theorize, compare it to how things turned out on Fippy.

    Did he rule with an iron fist on fippy?

    P.S I honestly don't know, but I can only logically assume he'd do the same thing here that he did on fippy.

    P.P.S I didn't mean that negatively, re reading my post It sounded like I was a bit crabby which is not my intention at all!
  3. rekais910 Augur

    These smaller guilds aren't doing it. In this case it's the leaders and maybe the officers who are failing to uphold their word and in the case of the leaders to their own name and their own guild's name. I frankly would have quit any guild that allowed Faceless' actions instantly if my guild leader took part in this, Dima included.
  4. taliefer Augur



    pretty much. the entire server didnt object much with faceless wanting efreeti FFA because they arent on the rotation. but they dont like the same rules being applied to the mobs which they are a part of.

    its a pretty simple solution. put efreeti back on the rotation, stick with what was working for months, and would have continued to work until Kunark. there was no reason to mess with what was working.
    Lokomotiva likes this.
  5. Reap Elder

    I dislike references to fippy. It was a completely different server, different situations, different people. I mean , the first expansions were decided by scripted shadowknights lol.
  6. rekais910 Augur

    Yea seriously. He's currently raiding on another server and has actively said he doesn't care about ruling the server or being number one. He wants the rotation to be fair, upheld and healthy for the server. All three of those things have failed do to Faceless action and Leader inaction. Honestly Dima is looking out for both his members and the rotation in his own way. Bandok is the only one on the rotation who has been actively trying to uphold the rotation and I thank him for that.
  7. Porygon Augur


    I was in citizen during kunark, they were not close to collapsing. And i guess thats one way to look at it... that TL got bored... another would be, they started to see Citizen taking over and couldnt stand not being #1, so they quit.

    Part of the measure of a guild is how long it can remain at the top, and when the playing field was equal (ie instances) we all saw which guild was better.
  8. Tulgin Augur


    "when Dupre/Darth essentially started this thread on this forum."

    Umm, yes, not exactly sure how this counters what I said in any way. The thread is a record regarding the status of Lockjaw Rotation, it's not a discussion thread. It's been hijacked now but that's beside the point.

    "If they are invited to the conversation and agree with certain viewpoints, right?"

    If they are invited yes, agreeing with certain viewpoints? Clearly not as it was 7 votes to 1.

    "Obviously not, you as well as everyone else have read the responses in this thread"

    I've read the responses, which is why I commented that I found it amusing people were replying as if it's up for debate.

    Again, this was started as a record of the events that transpired, not a discussion. There was a meeting, an outcome was determined, now you must accept the outcome and deal with it. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree to the terms, if you disagree to the terms you will face the consequences clearly stated in the original post.

    Posting counter-proposals and with a 11 page discussion amuses me because it's fruitless. I'm not saying you can't post your opinion, but recognise the futility of it.
  9. Reap Elder

    It wasn't the server, it was the guild leaders.

    At this point, and this is the critical thinking part - Let's assume FI has "played their hand" with dictatorship and laying down the authority. If rotation was reverted and everything goes back to peachy-keen, do you REALLY think anything is going to be smooth kunark+, when FI will be the dictator on who gets to even enter VP?
    rekais910 likes this.
  10. Lee81 Augur

    I honestly think that FFA would just prove to DBG to include instancing. Most of the influx of players would vanish. Fippy never saw this because it was a FFA and the general population never had a chance. You got to 50, but you sat around because you didn't have the hours of a surgeon and a batphone.
  11. AlmarsGuides Augur

    I'm going to bed, it has been one interesting night to say the least. I'd say see you all in 12hrs but we all know this thread is getting closed in less than 5.

    In which case have a great weekend and any east coasters out there in hurricane Joaquin Phoenix's route watch out.

    I really hope everyone can come to an agreement and this doesn't continue getting more and more and more out of hand.

    We all want 1 thing, to play the game. Keeping this in mind we should all be able to reach an agreement around this common interest.


    Bye bye!
    rekais910 and Lee81 like this.
  12. Marthisdil Augur

    Perhaps because none of the other guilds did, either? Why put it all on MM when all the other guilds on said rotation were supposed to band together to prevent it from happening.

    Instead they all cowed, too.

    Where's your complaint for all the other guilds?
    Aneuren likes this.
  13. taliefer Augur


    never really expected Kunark to be rotated off the bat, but i think some sort of rotation would have been worked out eventually. its still 2 and a half months away at any rate. there was no reason to change what was working.
  14. Simone Augur

    He's only looking out for his guild he doesn't give a damn about the rotation or he wouldn't have taken that action. His grievance is that Faceless Insanity killed efreeti so his fight is with them and them alone, involving other guilds in his lover's quarrel is only turning more guilds against him. If he wanted his guild to look like heroes he would have handled this situation in a different way.

    Nowhere in the rules did it say we all had to band together. There is a process of mediation to deal with grievances and to my knowledge Modest Man never took that route or even attempted to do so.
  15. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    So let me ask you:
    1) Are you absolutely certain that the discussion would have been the same had Faceless Insanity not deliberately violated the rules of the rotation agreement and excluded Modest Man from the meeting;
    2) Are you absolutely certain that the discussion would have been the same had it been limited only to those who had actually qualified for the Efreeti rotation;
    3) Do you think it is possible that the other guilds acted in only their best interests in bargaining away rotation spawns that were not even theirs;
    4) There is a leadership channel so that leaders can speak with each other without having a thread derailed like this. If Dupre and Faceless were not interested in drama, wouldn't the clearly better forum for these demands to have been made been the leadership channel?

    You can spin the facts however you want, but at the end of the day, Faceless Insanity - and every guild that went along with this charade - violated the rotation agreement the minute they held a meeting without us. You all acted to take away something from Modest Man without our input or our involvement, something that many of you had no stake in, in order to benefit your own guilds. Modest Man's Efreeti spawn was the only spawn where a force was instantly mobilized to kill it. The clear intent behind all of this was to hurt one guild - Modest Man. And the rest of you were more than willing to sit back and let it happen.

    Modest Man is willing to accept fair terms for these violations of the original rotation agreement in order to restore the status quo of the fairly-negotiated rotation agreement. We are not going to be bullied, deceived, lied to, threatened, or taken advantage of. If the rest of this server's guild leadership wants to try to force us, behind our backs, into giving away things that were fairly negotiated previously, then you have already set the tone for the level of cooperation for the future of this server. We have no problem losing - or maybe even winning - more or less spawns than we would have easily had won previously. We will contest any mob, whenever we want, and let the chips fall where they may.

    The drama in these threads is real. But, over time, as attitudes have already cooled, people have already begun realizing that Modest Man was not dealt with fairly. What is becoming more and more apparent is that people want to hold Modest Man to a higher level than the rest of the guilds on this server are being held to, and that isn't fair, and it isn't something we are willing to agree with.

    If the guilds on this server are content to exclude Modest Man from a discussion and take rotation spawns for us that we had done the hard work to qualify for, there is no reason for us to treat anyone else with any higher degree of courtesy or respect. What some of you are expecting from us is quite frankly outlandish. If the collective leadership is unwilling to keep our interests in mind while deliberately excluding us from discussions that impact us, then we will have to look out for our own best interest. I am truly sorry to those guilds that, like myself, enjoyed the rotation (well, I prefer instanced content, but I preferred a rotation by leaps and bounds over total FFA). But, again, you can direct your complaints to Faceless Insanity and company for thinking their own interests (again, shocking the 180 that they took the minute Daybreak withdrew support for rotations, but what do you expect from a group of thieves) were more important than ours.
    sleka likes this.
  16. Reap Elder

    mmmm... Taxation without Representation?
  17. Bandok Augur

    I'm not excusing Peace of Formosa getting caught up in this just because it was convenient (Inny was the first mob up for MM to attack), but MM didn't have a whole lot of options beyond taking this to an extreme.

    1. On the whole, MM doesn't seem to have the numbers to compete with FI. So MM couldn't retaliate by attacking Faceless' mobs, because that would gain them nothing.
    2. Most of the rotation guilds seem to have no problem with the events surrounding Efreeti being declared FFA. Who, exactly, was MM going to enlist for help in attacking FI's mobs? When the vast majority of the rotation won't recognize a violation, it's impossible to police.
    3. Related to number 2, any mediation that MM would have attempted with FI would've been skewed. Either one of the guilds that agreed to FFA Efreeti would say that MM had no ground to stand on, or FI would have disallowed someone like me as a mediator because I'm standing on an assumption that they see as invalid (Efreeti is not FFA because it wasn't voted on in a legitimate meeting)

    PFX has every right to be upset. So does MM. MM got put in a horrible spot.
  18. Reap Elder

    I'd like to see a post from Yukan, without beating around the bush. Stand up and make himself clear. Too much hearsay.
    Lejaun likes this.
  19. rekais910 Augur

    You're right. I agreed earlier that I don't blame PFX for being angry. Though as was stated in clear facts with logs that back up every detail in contrast to guild leader statements and in bad faith in from leaders in general. No guild at the meeting is innocent and faceless involved all of you in this fight when you showed up to that meeting and didn't immediately shut down their actions. (that last sentence is to PFX). I think the best way to put it is that Faceless is using every single guild from that meeting as a shield.
  20. KumbayaMyLordNagafen Lorekeeper

    Either you did not read the leadership chat pastebin, or you're just incredibly dense.
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