Lockjaw: Pre-Mediation Crib Sheet For People With Itchy Trigger Fingers

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Croak, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. Porygon Augur

    You didn't answer the main point of my question, so I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

    You claim rotation guilds can't be impartial because they have a vested interest in abiding by and continuing the rotation as long as possible.

    Wouldn't non rotation guilds have a similar outlook. In that removing the parts of the rotation they don't agree with to allow them access to what they want.

    Current (to my knowledge) the 3 incidents in sky included people that did not care about the rotation at all, and were vehemently breaking it even after it was brought to their attention.
    Lokomotiva likes this.
  2. Croak Augur

    That is to me a different question

    The vested interest (short term) in just using WMD
    • Make an example of them
    • Prove it works
    • Not spend more than 5 minutes on mediation
    • No other compensation to gain for time spent thus only punishment
    • Which leaders/officers suffer from megalomania?
    • Potentially no repetition
    The trust issue is something different in many ways. I am sure in every case it is different. I am more familiar with Zhu for instance as he wrote negatively about Gulfein in the past, I already know of his previous Sky encounter with MiM etc.
    So you might use a scale -100 to +100 - if Gulfein was mediating Zhu he might get -40, someone else from MM -20, MiM -60
    So say Zhu "called a friend" and asked for me to mediate, or one of the council saw me on line and asked me to give it a shot. (note: I really don't want to spend even less time playing, and I wasn't online at the time)
    I am a competitor with Zhu on idols, but I have never deliberately advertised my products immediately after him at cheaper prices, and I already had my prices before he really entered the market.
    I only found out well after his first incident who his trader is, but as far as persuading him back down from killing, I might be starting at +20 to +50 say...
    And then in negotiation I am going to be extremely clear of everything, with some empathy mixed in, and keep on and on and on for as long as it takes til he stops.
    Whether there would be a need for later mediation who knows, and for that part maybe someone else might be appropriate. I certainly wouldn't want to get involved with 4am voice calls.
    I have been arguing that the rotation guilds benefit by adding a fair amount of time to Sky for non-rotation, as that would result in a lot less people even bothering to qualify for a slot.
    >6% that might be on the table now, <50% which Darth would love.

    Zhu is a fan of rotations for real raid mobs - he hates mage boxers, many are my friends... guess what? People differ.

    If someone is up there, and the very short term "mediation" works, then likely they stop killing relatively fast, less harm, and no repetitions. Almost a win/win

    There is more harm if things continue til a GM takes action, so it amazes me to be quite honest that there isn't more patience in making mediation work.

    As to the incidents (afaik)

    Snubs wasn't really aware, and I don't think anyone really at that time was aware of the terrible consequences that can happen.

    Zhu was kinda aware before his first incident (there were 2) but he had raised issues with the Sky enforced rotation right at the beginning of the rotation thread and not much since. 2nd incident he was more aware, but I am not sure he realized that a GM petition is an executioner - maybe he will see this and confirm.

    The people posting for Overrated seem to be on new accounts - not sure if that is because they don't spend time on the forum, or hiding their other identities.

    The really really special situation in Sky on Lockjaw, which has never happened on any other server that I know of in the 15 years (with a few breaks) I have been playing EQ, that mobs can be killed by a 4 box team and get you suspended on the recommendation of another player after 5 mins of "mediation" is really at issue
  3. PlaceholderName_01 New Member

    We did not post on the forums prior to this. It's mostly just a boring circlejerk that we'd prefer to just laugh at in private than make any attempt to participate in. The lack of logic and arguments with ignoramuses isn't all that appealing to us.
    Makelite and Lokomotiva like this.
  4. Reval Augur

    If they want the rotation to work better, they should have released it for.. the xbox 360.

  5. Cerevent Crimsonstar New Member

    Am I the only one that thinks Croak seriously needs to get laid?
    Zurd and Lokomotiva like this.
  6. Porygon Augur

    You DO KNOW why they call it an xbox 360 right...


    Cause you take one look at it turn 360° and walk away.

    Doubtful it could improve anything.
  7. Reval Augur

    360 degrees is a circle. 180 degrees is turning around.
  8. Porygon Augur

    Then why don't they call it an xbox 180 than.

    You don't even know your geography.
  9. Steampunk Augur

    Don't let geometry spoil a good joke.
  10. Meatball Elder


    Thanks for your efforts in maintaining that standard.
  11. Zivix Journeyman

    These PoS threads are pointless. The only way anything is going to change is if Faceless, Modest Man and maybe to some extent, Ascended Darkness, agree to it. They're the ones you need to convince, as DBG has given them reign over the server. DBG originally supported the rotation that was created by these specific guild leaders and consults with them directly for any changes that are made. The other guilds that have joined the rotation are just following the rules of the rotation so they don't get kicked out of it themselves. For example, in Gremin's case, he's gone on record in game to say he doesn't agree with a lot of it but he wants DHS to be able to raid so they have to put up with the bullying by the bigger guilds and play along. They're a smaller but capable guild, basically being handed gods and dragons in classic, something they didn't expect to have even a single opportunity to kill until at least Kunark launched, maybe longer. In short, it's a situation where you don't bite the hand that feeds you. Go after the source and convince the handful of players that are actually in control of all of this, Faceless and Modest Man leadership.

    And to be clear, I'm not saying they're bad people for the position they're in, but it doesn't change the fact that they ARE the ones that decide what the entire server gets to do as long as they control the rotation and have a direct line of communication, resulting in influence, to DBG, while everyone else does not.
  12. DerpFinger New Member

    Yet everyone seems to be okay with letting these two guild leaders dictate all of the current end-game content. Complacency is all that is left now.

    Thank you, participation-trophy winners. You've gotten to re-live that (what I imagine must be glorious) life again online with the help of papa daybreak.
  13. Lee81 Augur

    Guilds within a rotation are better served as mediators because they have a vested interest in the DBG-enforced rotation. We're not talking about a custody agreement. Every guild is bound by explicit agreements. A 3rd party only has the obligation to state any rules, regulations, and agreements.

    Anyways, I find your post to be very insulting. You seem to assume that other players require special treatment. Empathy? Are we children? If you are old enough to sign the agreement, then you can't feign ignorance.
    Simone likes this.
  14. Lee81 Augur

    There is only one solution to this. We would need instanced raid content. Otherwise, it is a FFA. This is the next best thing.
  15. DerpFinger New Member

    Just doing like what they did with SolB and Perma, and apply it to the planes. CT/Inny on main pickzone only, as would be Spiroc Lord and everything above it.
    There would probably still be a rotation, but it would negatively impact far fewer people who are just there for planar set pieces, or people looking for lower end PoSky quest completions.

    The logic is easily transferrable to PoF / PoH, but would likely require some codework to do PoS.

    At this point it's a pipe dream, but we can still dream.
  16. Lee81 Augur

    Progression servers aren't a realistic idea. They should just include instancing for all dungeons and raid zones. Then again, it might require more work. The majority of mmorpg gamers are modernized anyways.
  17. Porygon Augur

    The rotation rules are put to a vote, everyone votes (that's included) and it requires a majority to change. 2 guilds cannot hijack the rules, because they wouldn't have enough power to change anything. If people disagree with things, the can say so, no-one is being kicked out because of their opinions.
  18. Dupre_MIM Elder

    The only reason I read these forums anymore is to find the gems Yawgmoth puts up. The checklist surely wasn't worth the read.

    Bottom line Croak, the only submitted petition I've made has been after repeated warning, explanation, and then sitting there watching the person breaking the rotation actually commit the offense to a point where it is truly detrimental to a rotation guild. I'd consider that a last resort. You're assuming we are quick to petition, when the truth each petition against a non-rotation guild has come after repeated requests to stop what they were doing, and a blatent unwillingness to discuss the matter at hand.

    I don't think we need conflict resolution 101 from you. We're all pretty reasonable people despite your personal opinion of us.
    lockjaws and Simone like this.
  19. Zivix Journeyman

    This information is both true but inaccurate. The only people allowed to vote are the people in the rotation and the only people getting put into the rotation are the guilds that agree to comply with the rotation rules, which were designed by Faceless and Modest Man leadership from the beginning. You simply must agree with their terms to be included in the club.

    Not only can 2 guilds hijack the rules, a single person can, as has been evident during the earliest rotation negotiations where Modest Man's leadership came up with the majority of the rules, butting heads with Faceless leadership until they finally gave in on a few things just to get things rolling.

    Much like anything, you can certainly voice your opinion or dislike about a matter in any situation you're involved in, but the people that have been allowed to join the rotation are there because they have chosen to be followers and keep their mouths shut for the most part, so that their guild members can continue to raid. The fact that rotation is designed to benefit the top guilds and sorta, kinda benefit the lesser guilds by giving them scraps so they don't cause a stink and pretend that everyone is playing nice together, is an absolute, but unspoken truth.

    This whole concept of giving people a sense that their frustrations are being listened to and that what they have to say matters, is an age old tactic. You notice we've had weeks of threads like this and DBG keeps closing them or combining them, but never actually addressing any of it? Like the complaint box in the office that fills up, gets emptied, but all the complaints get thrown out without being read by anyone. Things can continue to be the way they are as long as you give disgruntled people a sense that their opinion matters. DBG doesn't have the resources to babysit this many people so they're allowing people they consider "top players" to do it for them.
  20. Dupre_MIM Elder

    Yeah...You're wrong.

    The guilds allowed to vote are those actively in the rotation. The official DBG enforced rotation began with 6 guilds (FI, AD, MM, DHS, TFM, MIM), and has since expanded to include another 6 guilds. Which means we need a vote from 7 members to alter, add, or remove a rule. Darth (FI) and Gulfein (MM) will tell you that I (MIM) disagree and vote against them all the time. I've decided both with them and against them and there has been no wrath towards MIM, nor have we suffered under their oppresive thumb.

    Apparently you don't grasp the concept of negotiation? Faceless gave some, Modest Man gave some. There are things I'd like in the rotation I don't have, and things I'd rather not see that are currently there. Is what it is.

    Nice anonymous post btw.
    lockjaws, Simone and Porygon like this.

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