Live Update: Wednesday, February 19 @ 4am Pacific

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Roshen, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. Tarrin Augur

    It took me a good 5 minutes trying to figure out how your analogy even directly applied. I still don't see it, so I am quite certain it doesn't.

    First, I feel as though you are trying to say getting AAs is a race, since you made this analogy specifically this way. There is some need to have more AAs first..before others. There isn't. There is no need to "win" the AA "race". There is nothing to win by beating someone else, other than the chance to experience the game with those AAs first. Guess what. Vets who have the AAs being autogranted get to do exactly that!

    Why would someone who grinded the AAs over..lets say..a 15 year period be tired after the race? If anything, I would see the "tired" applying to the new person who tried to grind all of their AAs in a very quick time period to catch up.

    If this truly was a "race", why would the winner be unhappy you walked the last mile? I have participated in cross country runs. I have never met anyone who cared how any other person ended the race. You ran for yourself (improving your personal best). If you had competition, it pushed you to run even harder. But if my competition was not up to the task, I was *never* mad at them for being unable to compete at the same level I did. That would be just silly. There have been many times where I ran against people who blew me out of the water. I have never seen them get mad at me because I didn't run as fast as them.

    Top to bottom, you analogy does not fit.
    Geroblue likes this.
  2. Tarrin Augur

    So, are you saying that some initial AAs that are 4+ years old is the top of the mountain?

    I have absolutely zero problem with this change. It gets people out of the awkward area that is between " can no longer really solo with a merc " and " still lower level than most of the gaming population, so groups are extremely rare "

    There is SO much more to accomplish in this game than a bunch of old AAs. Don't tie so much of your character to an AA count. People don't care about your specific AA number. They want to know if you bring enough healing, DPS, tanking to the table. Groups aren't built around " hey, how many AAs do you have ? ". Its " hey, can you tank X?" or " can you heal Y?". "Can you outdps a wiz merc?"

    Bad players will still be bad. Good players will still be good. This gets both to a slightly higher point in EQ faster.
    Sinestra likes this.
  3. Laban1999 New Member

    Thumbs DOWN, is all I can say.

    Shows how little you know about making somthing FUN!

    You spend to much time on CRAP and UNIMPORTANT things.
  4. Velric Journeyman

    Where exactly did I say that? 5k to 7k AA's is quite a headstart.
  5. Tarrin Augur

    Sure, but it only marginally makes the trip more "hollow". There is sooo much to do in this game outside of grinding AAs. There is a ton to do to help your character improve outside of having a bigger AA number.
  6. Lasherž New Member

    I'm really disappointed with the latest patch. Speaking as a cleric I feel as though a lot of what we had, even before this swarming mess started was taken away.

    Previous to shining rampart clerics would solo 3 to 4 light blue mobs at once, just as many as we could get away with given our HoT regen from our vow line. Our dps was primarily brought on by our ward line. There were no server crushing swarms done by clerics back then, at least not on any mobs that give us XP. Why oh why would you put a proc limit on ward? It makes no sense. Now it's nothing more than a mana sink. Also, divine retribution? Why, because it has a chance to trigger recourse of life? That heal sucks and couldn't keep us up verse anything in the last 4 expansions. At that point our HoT does more to prevent our death.

    I wonder if you've forgotten why you gave clerics utility spells in the first place? To make us an easy choice over a merc. Start stealing them away and you're left with a merc.

    My "solution" would be to take off the ward counter and "see" how the server lag goes.. i think you'd find it's still low since we'd die with too many all the same. If not then do what you should have done when you made the spell and make it no longer work while invulnerable. That's the only way we'll be swarming with it any time soon. As for shining, you turned our best spell into our worst spell, thanks. At least make it worth a damn for farming. Right now I'll die from greys, but not from light blues?

    Really doubt you have any intention to change this, but seriously... low blow for clerics. Hard enough to find groups with all the mercs out there and now we suck at soloing again too.

    Edit: I also felt it was worth mentioning after reading some other cleric's concerns: My main use of shining rampart besides keeping things alive, was keeping agro where it belongs. Clerics really have no AE agro without shining is my point. Divine retribution isn't allowed to proc enough to generate it either. My level 70 rogue steals agro off my cleric in the first few stabs after multiple stuns, divine retribution procs, and self heals with 10 mobs on him. We're pretty much forced to do damage for any form of agro, but even with silent mandate I couldn't hold on past the second backstab. Does Listlessness now only trigger on appropriately leveled mobs? If not I guess it's time to reroll a shaman so I can do simple farming and helping out lower leveled people without damaging their mobs.
    Roxxanna and Funno like this.
  7. Funno New Member

    I agree 100%. Shining line will not proc AT ALL on grey con mobs. Shining was an agro tool and a heal tool. I tried doing the Rathe council yesterday at lvl 100 they are like 68 or so. Died very quickly like in less than 30 sec and there were only 12 of them.

    The three changes, Ward, Vow, and Shining changes make those spells virtually worthless and not cast at all as they do not function the way clerics need them to function.

    Again this was not about server lag as clerics were not causing it but about stopping competition i.e PLing so Heroic Characters could be sold.

    Funno
  8. a_cleric00 Lorekeeper


    Think of it like this though. You and I had to spend a lot of time getting the AA's that they are autogranting. Even with the AA curve, the person just starting will have to spend a lot of time grinding out those same AA's, and then spend a lot of time grinding out those AA's that have been released since then, and then they will probably have a lot more to grind out because it will have taken then a good deal of time to catch up. In the meantime, we have been able to stay current because we don't have to perpetually catch up. The only way for this new player to be able to be our contemporaries is by investing a lot more time than we had to initially.

    This autogrant makes it so they can put the SAME (this is key) amount of effort in that we did in the SAME time frame and be able to play on the same level as us. Think of it as effort per unit time, instead of total effort over an indeterminate length of time. If I spend 30 years pushing a box up a hill, I don't have to work very hard to get to the top. However, if I spend 5 minutes pushing the same box up the same hill, I have to work much, much harder only to end up in the same place that someone who started 30 years ago got to.

    It does not give them an unfair advantage, it simply takes away the unfair disadvantage they had of starting their character after we did. Are there other ways to accomplish this? Sure, but this is how SOE decided to do it after a lot of deliberation, and I think it was probably the best move they could have made to keep the vast majority of people happy (players, shareholders, developers, etc). Most people will forget this was even an issue in a couple months, and those that ragequit over this (if anyone actually did) will probably come back by then, or they are staunchly myopic.
    Hawklight Yandli likes this.
  9. Eluwenie Augur


    I've actually been working more on my level now (before this maintenance was done) than the AA's .. I figure I'd rather have a very slow progression rate of level than to boost it automatically.. also I am currently working on the TBS expansion (seems that's a dead zone now on the AB server), which does give some good loot, slower exp. than Void progression, but I've dabbled here and there with the Void, I did get my Bane's aug (sorry my memory isn't as good as it used to be). I do dailies in DSH with faries when I do play and end up in LP which I can grind very easily near the druid circle. Yes, I'm having fun and I have started from the ground up with my main. I don't box (I honestly don't know how) and with my healer merc, I know for a fact without that I wouldn't even come close to LP. Most people in my guild are interested in newer content and are lvl 90's and 100's. Also my guild isn't very large anymore, and I honestly enjoy soloing, I don't have to wait for groups, and people tend to think that I am uber (when in fact I'm not) I guess it's my Hero's Forge appearance and the weapons I weld, which is why I die easier in a group. I go at my own pace and if I can't conquer something right away, I'll try later when I have more AA's or a higher level.. I'm a patient person and IRL I honestly don't require much to keep me happy and content.. thank you Numzan, I appreciate the feedback :D
  10. Roxxanna Augur

    Everything you just said, 100%, especially the aggro loss from shining not procing enough, I now have to use a merc healer and can't keep mobs from attacking the merc.
    Lasherž likes this.
  11. Ryneis Elder

    There is no unfair advantage. It is called playing the game.

    Part of the grab/attraction of EQ is developing your character. There seems to be this side of the debate stating you enjoyed your time doing this or that with your toon. How does this lessen your time in the game? Once again, it is part of the attraction progressing through the game increasing what you can do.

    The next hurdle these players will encounter will be gear. I am not geared well enough so, I can not play with my people in the newest expansion. Well those people who progressed have already "enjoyed" their gear so, now we can just give it away. You will log in one day and see auto grant all slots or certain slots to tier four of two expansions ago. Thank you for paying.

    The progression is part of playing: AAs, leveling, gearing your toon, progressing through content, trade skill development, ...etc. Try applying this I suddenly have this skill or gear to the real world. I suddenly become this great artist, investor, plumber, etc without anything invested. Anyone could do anything overnight. How many would strive for the skills or knowledge to be better? Would you have to play the game of life to get where you wanted to go? Would this encourage a society of welfare where I can be just as good as you as an expert by auto granting skills....wealth?

    Does this lessen what you have accomplished through learning, living, and experiencing when someone else can accomplish the same thing by rolling over in his seat? I think it does. I also think that the game loses it's grab/attraction. People log in less because there is no need to progress, develop, or spend time in this game. There is no need to play because I can acquire it anyway through this welfare system. It cheats the player out of the game experience. It cheats EQ out of long term players.

    Disappointedly retired,

    Ryneis
  12. hakmer Augur

    The progression is part of playing: AAs, leveling, gearing your toon, progressing through content, trade skill development, ...etc. Try applying this I suddenly have this skill or hear to the real world. I suddenly become this great artist, investor, plumber, etc without anything invested. Anyone could do anything overnight. How many would strive for the skills or knowledge to be better? Would you have to play the game of life to get where you wanted to go? Would this encourage a society of welfare when I can be just as good as you as an expert by auto granting skills....wealth?
    ---------------------------------------
    So what you are saying is that anyone who goes to college on a grant is a scumbag and has no knowledge of life? Grants HELP people, not give them everything.. this grant HELPED people it didn't give them everything and to base your argument on hyperbole and non-existent circumstances of what could happen is horribly obtuse.Grants have been a part of everday life for a long long time and many people need those to get a proper footing and continue on to be outstanding . Not everyone has the silver spoon. If you go through life being mad that other people got something you didn't you are going to have a horrible life.So someone gets level 85 group gear? so what? does that break your game?Does it stop you from doing what you want to do in the game? Do you cuss out the people who win the lottery?
    Sinestra and Geroblue like this.
  13. Ryneis Elder

    There would be no need to go to college. You would be auto granted the skills you desire. No need to improve or try new things...you would auto grant learn them after time.

    As far as the grant system in EQ, it already existed through the learning curve...hot zones...defiant gear(the gear part could use improvement).

    Disappointed retired,

    Ryneis
  14. Geroblue Augur

    You still have to level up to the next level to get those AAs. You just can spend time exploring and leveling, and not grinding just the AAs.
  15. Ryneis Elder

    At the moment this is kind of true, the heroics characters will move that bar to 85. Will they move the level bar higher in the future if they can not make enough money from the practice? Will they just start or have an opt in to start much higher if they deem the "hill" of leveling is too hard?


    Disappointedly retired,

    Ryneis
  16. Geroblue Augur

    It is very true. You cannot get 55th level AAs until you reach 55th level. I don't have to get to 55, and then spend a month or more gaining the AAs I need before O get to 56th level. I'm a casual gamer, with over 150 characters on 5 accounts.
  17. a_cleric00 Lorekeeper


    So, you are saying that simply because someone started playing the game after us, they need to put in more effort in order to catch up to us? I don't see the logic in that at all. The logical design to me would be make it so that the rate of effort one puts in determines where in the game they will play. High rates of effort will be playing end game; low rates will be playing earlier expansion content. However, if I just started playing and put in the same rate of effort that current end game players put in, I will never catch them.

    Think of it like two cars moving along the same track. The total distance traveled is the total effort and directly correlates to the content you are experiencing. The speed is the rate of effort. If I am traveling the same speed as the car that is already 2 miles ahead of me, I will never be able to catch up. I have to travel at a faster velocity (put in a larger rate of effort) in order to be able to experience the same piece of track (content) that the car ahead is currently enjoying. You would penalize someone because they didn't start at the same time? What would make sense instead is to start the new cars further along the track so that maybe they have to put in a bit more speed, but not something untenable, which is precisely what this AA grant does.
    Sinestra and Hawklight Yandli like this.
  18. Ryneis Elder

    They would not have to put in more effort. The effort would be the same as we did. They have help you catch up tools already in game that made the effort less with the exception of easing progression requirements to a degree. The gearing of players would be harder at least for non tanks. Tanks have always had to be geared well first to progress.

    The key word is effort as there will be none required. They can or will shortly be able to start at 85....with all the AAs to go with it. Where will it stop? Will it be 5 levels less than max next time? Will the auto grant be gear for the last expansion next time?

    Disappointedly retired,

    Ryneis
  19. Ryneis Elder

    Where will it stop? With HCs I can be 85 will all the AAs to go along with it. It could go to 100 and all those AAs will go will it as well.

    To my understanding this auto grant thing will be continue on. As in next expansion, you will be granted the previous four expansions of AAs and so forth. When will the level hill be considered too hard or too much of a bother to climb? When this happens, maybe there will be a opt in to 90...95....100. Maybe instead of just leveling they will just let you buy a current level toon which you can auto grant AAs and start playing right away with auto grant gearing.

    Why put forth the effort when you do not have to?

    Ryneis
    Funno likes this.
  20. a_cleric00 Lorekeeper

    Slippery slope arguments are a logical fallacy. The "where will it stop" question is just such an argument. It will stop where it's appropriate, as it already does. It stops 15 levels back already, why would they decrease it to 5 levels? And gear is less of an issue than you make it out to be. Have you tried getting a full set of Boreal lately? It's ridiculously easy. Latent Ether gear is just about as easy if you know how to do it.

    And you are wrong about them having to put in the same effort. The "tools" available to a new player were lacking. After about 2-3k AA you were already slowing down significantly. Or do you think that 85 with ~5k AA is endgame? 85 ~5k AA is a good starting place because it gives you 15 levels and about 5-6k AA to go (without any AA exp modifier). How much did you grind to get current in the last two expansions? 5 levels and maybe 1-2k? My bard took less than 1.4k for both RoF and CotF. Your argument is that 15 levels and 5.5k AA is the same amount of effort as 5 levels and 1.5k. This is completely incorrect.
    Hawklight Yandli likes this.