Level and stat caps.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Evertrek, Aug 11, 2021.

  1. kizant Augur

    No. Why would your house become less nice because someone else also has one?
    Ssdar, Jennre, Winnowyl and 1 other person like this.
  2. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    I think you completely misunderstood Bruce Hornsby's song. It is a cry for change, not the continued acceptance of outdated ways of thinking.

    This also isn't real life, it's a game. I (used to) pay to be here, not the other way around. And we aren't old people yelling at the government because we hate to see somebody else get help we didn't get. We are just customers discussing what we want.
    Nennius and Skuz like this.
  3. Svann2 The Magnificent

    Maybe Im missing part of the point in all the back and forth, but we actually had it easier leveling than the new player does because everyone was leveling up together. There were plenty of groups.

    Or abusing the hypothetical house analogy - you bought your house in 1965 when it could easily be done with a smaller proportion of a single wage earner's salary, but these days its much harder for most.
  4. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    There are some mental gymnastics going on here.

    Every TLP has thus far lost its players at a fairly predicatable rate except for Ragefire - that one lost a bunch to Phinigel then, as it is non-Truebox, did quite a lot better than all the Truebox TLP at retaining players.
    And each TLP is losing players even during Classic.

    So using your logic no TLP is successfully letting players see more than Classic with the numbers it started with, fact is the decline is across many expansions all your doing is licking your finger, sticking it in the air & making an assumption as to where the wind blows and where your imaginary line in the sand exists.
    No TLP maintain their starting level of popularity and none thus far have grown post-launch. My point was it was possible for me to play from 65 to 115 catching up to live on a single TLP, doesn't matter how that happened it was doable as there were enough players to allow the server to reach live with at least 1 guild raiding.

    I did see a handful of players start at various points after I did, in Rosengard we had somehwere around 10 players who joined us from Selo around HoT/VoA and later on around 6 who started around RoF, as of right now I have been on AB for 4 weeks and Phinigel had 1 guild remaining, it had 3 at the start of ToV.

    I do see Truebox as part of the problem with retaining players on TLP beyond PoP, I remain convinced it should be switched off around DoDH - maybe even as early as GoD but absolutely no later than SoD - and I will not play on any future Truebox TLP that isn't switching it off around then.
    Ssdar, NameAlreadyInUse and kizant like this.
  5. Rauven Augur

    I could agree with that.

    This is pretty much already done at the lower levels as all the dropped/crafted spells/skills are sold in PoK at the lower levels. But the midhigh levels aren't.
    Dre. likes this.
  6. Barraind Grumpy Old Bastage

    Percentage increases alone are their own special form of meaningless when some of the biggest increases there come from the kunark to velious and luclin to pop era's.

    More than doubling your ac and hp per piece from 45/100 to 100/270 was less of an impact than moving up one tier of gear in the current game. I had to tank raid mobs in time wearing summoned plate armor during one of the patches where corpses sometimes just poofed until the instance reset. That felt less bad than the gap as it exists.

    I play on test these days, where we're perpetually a year (or two) behind in terms of raid gear, and the difference even there is staggering, in terms of numbers and what those numbers represent for just grinding mobs for aa.
  7. Flatchy Court Jester

    Because I was proud that i worked hard to get it, Now Everyone gets one for nothing making my hard work pointless.

    Sorry I was taught if you work hard you will suceed, in this day of participation trophys everything we were taught was a lie.

    I dont want everyone to be the same, how boring is that. Nobody answered my question btw.
    Elyssanda likes this.
  8. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I took me 20 years to get my main where she is now.
    Should it take someone else 22 years to get to the same point? No
    The goverment hands out houses at a cost - EQ equivalent Heroic Chars
    The government hands out grants all the time for those in need, at no cost to anyone - EQ equivalent, AA grant, Free Heroics, Bonus exp etc.
    Is my house or char any worse?No
    Does it cost me anything for their improved char/house? No
    Does someone else having a better char/house make mine worse? No
    Is there the possability of grouping with more people becuase the were given/purchased an improvement? Yes

    The problem with condensing everything down is not only dev time, but also those who are mid game and enjoying it. Helping players level up if they want to IMHO is a far better way than taking away someone elses enjoyment of playing as it is now.

    I also think scaling chars down is a good way of getting players to group with lower levels. Shrouds were a good way (apart from not actually being player chars) but as with most features they didn't keep it up for current levels.
  9. Flatchy Court Jester

    <insert Dude Quote here>
  10. kizant Augur

    It doesn't make it pointless because you did benefit from your hard work.

    Participation trophies started in the 80s. That's when I first got them as a kid. Our basketball team would lose and they'd still give us all prizes to make everyone feel better. I don't really know why boomers started them. Maybe they were trying to teach us that it's possible to work as hard as you can and still lose in this world and that doesn't mean we don't matter.

    Oh yeah everyone is different. There's no way to avoid basic biology. For example, I paid off my house after 10 years and I didn't work hard at all. I just happened to get a career doing what I love. I started programming when I was 10 and it's been my favorite past time ever since. I hope that doesn't make my neighbors feel bad if they still have a mortgage and don't enjoy their job. It's funny I don't feel like I've even done work since part time jobs during school 20+ years ago.
  11. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I always saw these as a reminder that you took part as they were given to everyone, similar to those who keep ticket stubs to concerts, etc.
    Ssdar and kizant like this.
  12. Dharken Elder

    When someone works for something, they appreciate it more. They enjoy it more. If someone works for said something for years and then everyone gets the same something for free, it will irritate them.

    The people who were given said item for nothing, will not appreciate it. They will complain about it, they wont take care of it and then they will drive the value out of it. These same people also begin to push the "I deserve it too!" mentality to their friends, pushing for more items to be given away.

    Now Bob who worked his off for years has become the next generation of lazy. Might as well just wait and get it for free. Personal accomplishments mean nothing and eventually everyone gets it. We further develop the mindset and now people who had a mindset of pride in their accomplishments are bashed and told they are nothing special cause <I got it too!>

    What do we have to work for? What do we have to drive ourselves? What reason do we have to work hard and stand above the next person, if our accomplishments are degraded to nothing? There isnt one.

    Tying this back to Level and stat squishes: Yes, there is a ton of bloat in the game that is no longer used. Maybe they can take a look at making things obtained alternatively, ergo getting say Heroes Vitality from current content, or the content it is an achievement for. This way the people still have to work and do something to earn that boost, but they dont need to mindlessly grind the old adventures that at this point are just "Run in and turn on melee" for the most part.
    Complete X missions. Complete Y additional interactions, Complete Z number of Quests. This character is now more Vital. It makes sense.

    Leveling could be made easier if they overhauled the current Hero's Journey. Each completion could yield a large amount of EXP (Like ToV completion) to push those levels faster. Grinders can still grind if they choose, but we have a built in catch up mechanism that can be used, and people can still learn their class.

    Probably more than 2cents worth. But I'm not giving change for nickels.
    Flatchy likes this.
  13. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    In the 70s my hippie teachers (that were awesome) had a 'track and field day'.

    I won a 'Georgie Porgie Award' ribbon.
    code-zero likes this.
  14. Dre. Augur

    The Paragon rewards in Curing the Corruption are pretty nice, but you still have the issue in all 80+ content of relative player power vs mobs. This content was designed for groups of well-geared experienced players. Upcoming players are attempting it solo+merc with much worse gear.
  15. Dharken Elder

    This is very true and (if approached correctly) could be addressed with the overhaul. Iirc Hero's Journey had some tasks that provided much better loot than anything in that level range would currently cover. Might help with the group vs solo/molo/small groups.
    Mob bloat has been my biggest complaint for years. Those HP/Damage pools just ramp up.
  16. kizant Augur

    Lol nice.

    If you get irritated because others didn't have to struggle as hard as you did then that's a you problem. You shouldn't let others impact your happiness so easily.
    MasterMagnus and Ssdar like this.
  17. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    So what exactly is your argument based upon?

    I already clearly demonstrated that your belief that gear hp had massively inflated from EoK onwards was wrong and then you add it was even worse earlier on which actually supports my method of debunking your argument.

    Perhaps you simply cannot get your head around the increases from expansion to expansion being percentage based?

    What kind of broken logic are you using where a 50% increase in hp is not stronger than a 24% increase? o_O

    You were wearing:

    1: Summon Item: Phantom Satchel
    2: Summon Item (in bag): Phantom Plate Helm
    3: Summon Item (in bag): Phantom Breastplate
    4: Summon Item (in bag): Phantom Plate Vambraces
    5: Summon Item (in bag): Phantom Plate Bracers
    6: Summon Item (in bag): Phantom Plate Bracers
    7: Summon Item (in bag): Phantom Plate Gauntlets
    8: Summon Item (in bag): Phantom Plate Greaves
    9: Summon Item (in bag): Phantom Plate Boots

    And tanking raid mobs?

    Consider me extremely sceptical of that claim, you may have been hitting them and getting rezzed or your Clerics were extremely fond of you but no Raidleader worth a damn would have a tank wearing that tank raid bosses in PoTime.

    I think the good sir is exaggerating a wee bit too much, could have used ornate and still been squishy.

    You are hunting CoV group mobs in TBL raid gear?


    If you are, then CoV tradeskilled is a little better HP than that and you only lose a very small amount of AC so you should be doing just fine fighting in CoV wearing TBL raid gear actually since the group content is tuned for CoV group T1/T2/Tradeskilled items.

    You could in fact upgrade from TBL raid gears to CoV tradeskilled items and gain around 17k hp, which on a 300k ish character isn't a ton but still useful.

    I think your "staggering" difference is a gross exaggeration.
    Ozon likes this.
  18. Dharken Elder

    I think you mistake the meanings behind working for something and struggling for something.
    Review the argument, someone ~Works for something~ and someone else gets the same thing for Free... We are then subject to people like you telling us that we are the problem, not the people whining until they get something for free.
    Also Remember: nothing is free. It has to be provided for by someone at some point, and that is often those of us working. It is valid for one such as myself to be irritated by people getting something for free (and having the audacity to complain about it) while I Work to achieve what I do achieve.

    Thank you for proving the point.
  19. Accipiter Old Timer

    I got you:

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  20. kizant Augur

    Neither are a 'problem'. You're misunderstanding what I said. If your happiness is decreased based on other people getting something without putting in the same work you did. Then that's something you need to work on. I'm not saying you're the problem or that you are a problem. But you should ask yourself why your happiness is so fragile? Did your accomplishments really make you happy or were you happy for other reasons? Did having what you earned make you feel superior to others who did not have those things? There must be more to it.

    You never said someone was taking from you. Obviously, you have a right to be annoyed if you're being forced to give away things that you've earned. But that's a completely different issue.

    In the case of Everquest not a single player here has done anything to provide for what others are being given when the game is made easier. I argue against the game being made easier in many cases but my arguments are based on what constitutes a good game. It's important for things to be challenging to keep players engaged. But tediousness isn't something I'd consider challenging.
    Nennius, Skuz, Warpeace and 2 others like this.