Awesome thanks, they are boxed - so the monk is much easier to manage due to not needing a back - but wanted the hypothetical if gameplay was 100% who is the overall better contributor. Trying not to derail this too much. It seems monks will hit technically harder for auto attack damage and pump out more hits per round due to higher double attack/triple attack/dual wield skill caps whereas the rogue makes up for this in having a much higher damaging backstab vs flying kick?
Testing is in progress still, but based on what I have so far here is my best guess for the formula for monk damage: floor(skill/15)+3 floor means round down, which always seems to happen with integer math in EQ formulas +3 because that's what the damage seems to be at level 1 I think it's right because it fits the low levels I've tested so far, it fits level 50 with 270 skill, AND it fits the entire skill to damage relationship chart from wycca's post from years ago. So far, delay has been 38 at all levels and skill levels that I've tested.
If my formula is correct, this statement was prophetic. 269 skill would be 20 damage, and 270 skill would be 21. I'll test that exact thing soon, and then we'll know.
So assuming 10 h2h per level from 55-60, that puts us at 330 h2h @ 60, for 25/38 base fists, or(assuming the info is correct), 25/28 with epic, which should work out pretty well.
I went ahead and did a couple parses (one with the my haste belt still and another without it on because I was being surprised by the delay I was getting). It would seem that the Epic gives us 26 delay (not 28). Epic Barefist 24% Haste Belt Epic Barefist No Haste Belt For the Haste Belt parse we have: Delay = (921/(192+224+24))*10*1.24 = ~25.95545 which is pretty much 26 delay. Since we were told 28, I thought maybe I was doing something wrong being with it being late so I did the no haste belt parse Where we have the simplified equation: Delay = (945/(145+195+24))*10 = ~25.96154 which is again effectively 26 Delay. So it seems like the delay we get is lower than what Prathun told falendar. I'm not sure what level you are currently testing, but be sure that you check the values for the new Innate Innerflame AA which is autogranted starting at level 40(?) as it works as a passive damage modifier. I'm not sure what the % is at 50, but as you can see it increased the max hit by 18 while leaving the min hit unchanged. I'm not sure how this will effect the formula which you use to determine the damage calculation if it does at all. The AA has 17 ranks, the 4th of which is at level 52 which puts it at 25% mod; I would like to assume the 3rd one which covers level 50 is an 18% mod. But can't say for sure.
After using my head for a bit, I did the /alt list command and discovered that the % values for the first 4 are 10%(at level 40), 15%(at level 44?), 20%(at level 48?), and 25%(at level 52). Those are just my guesses as to the levels for the middle two.
Fortunately, the test server allows you to /resetaa. So I can do the testing 40+ without the dmg mod.
I'm not sure that's a safe assumption, since the old skill table had 50-60 only gaining 35 points in h2h. That would be 23/38, or .605 ratio. I'm noting all the skill caps at every level as I go though, so we'll know for sure then (unless someone can quickly check a 60 monk now).
Ok thanks, I wasn't sure on those number so I was taking a guess. 23/28 is still a pretty solid 1hander, and if that other post is correct its possibly a 23/26 with epic, which would be fantastic. Also, thanks a ton for all the work you guys are doing. This is all pretty exciting.
still no reply from prathun on getting the current chart. If you know of another dev to talk to let me know or hit them up, would love to have the correct info
I am 90% sure that the formula I provided above is correct: floor(h2h_skill/15)+3 Monk weapon skill caps: 10 per level 1-10 5 per level 11-25 4 per level 26-45 3 per level 46-at least 60 This results with skill caps of 270 at 50 and 300 at 60 Delay is always 38 (unless you have epic) So, in an easy to access chart up to 60: Level(skill) - Level(skill): Dmg/Dly 1(0) - 2(14): 3/38 2(15) - 3(29): 4/38 3(30) - 5(44): 5/38 5(45) - 6(59): 6/38 6(60) - 8(74): 7/38 8(75) - 9(89): 8/38 9(90) - 11(104): 9/38 11(105) - 14(119): 10/38 14(120) - 17(134): 11/38 17(135) - 20(149): 12/38 20(150) - 23(164): 13/38 23(165) - 26(179): 14/38 27(180) - 30(194): 15/38 30(195) - 34(209): 16/38 34(210) - 38(224): 17/38 38(225) - 41(239): 18/38 42(240) - 45(254): 19/38 45(255) - 50(269): 20/38 50(270) - 55(284): 21/38 55(285) - 60(299): 22/38 60(300): 23/38
Looks good raynard, I will go forward with this in mind but I am still going to try and get confirmation from a dev, This should be something that is readily available. They should have put a right click option on your fists to just look at the dmg and delay after the revamp, and why they changed it without anyone knowing is beyond me. I actually prefer these over the 20/26 than at 50 because it just keep us in line and not the best dps option ( wizzys), but they still should have told us.
This info is all well and good, but has completely confused me as a monk on the TLP servers. 23/38 (39) just at 60 just doesn't look that good... maybe it is? I'm still leveling so I really don't know. For us mathematically handicapped would say, a 2hb with a 28/30 delay be better than bare fists? Or perhaps some combo of 1hb and bare fist works well enough? I don't have a huge amount of play time so I really would like to focus my efforts on getting what would work out well in the end without wasting said play time on sub-optimal weapons. Any of you super smart guys have thoughts? Advice? Thanks a ton!
I have copied my 60 non epic monk to testserver but havent gotten around to actually doing some proper parses yet. I do however always have my parser running and my gut feeling tells me that my Imbued Fighter Staff 38/40 is about same dps as Adamantite Club 15/25 + Stave of Shielding 17/28 perhaps the IFS is slightly better dps. Fists come in slightly lower dps that the weapon combos mentioned above eventhough the ratio is pretty simular. During innerflame disc the IFS blows the duel wield combo out of the water. I use the IFS when not tanking as it generates alot less agro than the duel wield combo. I swap in the duel wield if I need to tank and actually worries about agro aswell.
Generally speaking, the reason why a 28/30 2hb would not be better than 23/38 bare fists is that you are dual wielding with your bare fists. Say that you did two 114 second parses, one 2hb parse and one bare fists parse. On the 2hb parse, you would wind up having 38 rounds. On the bare fists parse, you will have 30 round; but since you are dual wielding your round consists of a primary attempt and potential secondary attempt*. Additionally, you will have far more double attack triggers go off with your 1h's due to their being far more of those attempts. In addition to this, the difference in damage on the two weapons is only 5 damage; so the amount of damage per round from 2hb hits is not going to be enough on average to come near matching the amount of damage per round from bare fist hits. The waters become a lot murkier when you start using weapons such as the one that Muvien mentioned IFS with a 38/40 ratio. Here we will do 152 second parses; 2hb results in 38 attacks while bare fists end up with 40 primary attempts and 40 attempts at secondary. Now it is easy to see that you are going to end up with far more actual attack attempts with 1h's compared to 2hb. But in this case the damage on the 2hb is 15 more than what the 1h's have so that will work towards balancing the damage per round so that looking at the rounds as a whole you could possibly come out with a much closer parse. I think that, while the 2 will parse very close to each other, bare fists will likely edge out 2hb; however the reverse could also result simply due to the RNG. Though as Muvien states, with Innerflame running 2hb will shine more. *I forget off the top of my head at what level dual wield is a guaranteed 100%.
