Level 50 Monk Fist DPS

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Laurb, Jun 27, 2015.

  1. Laurb New Member

    I am playing a Monk on Ragefire and heard a lot of chat about how good our fists were at 50. Also read some old threads that questioned just how good they were. (https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/monk-fists-20-26-on-tlp.183421/page-10)

    So I downloaded Gamparse scrounged up some older weapons to see for myself. Review these critically as I am not an experience parser although I do believe them to be correct.

    Level 50 naked monk(Lilgon, Stromm/Luclin) parsed damage to level 50 combat dummy from behind. Primary hand weapon is listed. Off hand held a “Bulwark of Many Portals” to prevent swings. HTH skill 270. 1hb skill 270. These parses are approximately 30 minutes each. Note the seconds per attempt calculations are mine obtained by dividing the duration of the parse by the attempts.

    Fists: -- DMG: 22812 -- DPS: 13 -- Scaled: 13 -- Punch: 22812 -- % dmg as normal: 100% -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 770 -- Hits: 489 -- Missed: 281 -- Accuracy: 63.5% -- Avg Hit: 46 -- Max hit: 100 -- DMG to PC: 0. 1802 seconds. 2.3 seconds per attempt

    -Minohten Hero Tonfa (19/26)-- DMG: 33013 -- DPS: 18 -- Scaled: 18 -- Punch: 33013 -- % dmg as normal: 100% -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 1183 -- Hits: 738 -- Missed: 445 -- Accuracy: 62.4% -- Avg Hit: 44 -- Max hit: 91 -- DMG to PC: 0. 1813 seconds. 1.5 seconds per attempt

    Sheetmetal Ulak (10+2/20) -- DMG: 25847 -- DPS: 14 -- Scaled: 14 -- Punch: 25847 -- % dmg as normal: 100% -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 1472 -- Hits: 918 -- Missed: 554 -- Accuracy: 62.4% -- Avg Hit: 28 -- Max hit: 60 -- DMG to PC: 0. 1807 seconds. 1.2 seconds per attempt

    Anklesmasher (10/20)-- DMG: 23760 -- DPS: 13 -- Scaled: 13 -- Crush: 23760 -- % dmg as normal: 100% -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 1519 -- Hits: 898 -- Missed: 621 -- Accuracy: 59.1% -- Avg Hit: 26 -- Max hit: 52 -- DMG to PC: 0. 1805 seconds. 1.2 seconds per attempt

    The Tonfa is far better. Fist are putting out the damage of the .50 ratio Anklesmasher but with much fewer attempts. Following is 15 min parse:

    Centi Warhammer (15/32)-- DMG: 11796 -- DPS: 12 -- Scaled: 12 -- Crush: 11796 -- % dmg as normal: 100% -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 488 -- Hits: 329 -- Missed: 159 -- Accuracy: 67.4% -- Avg Hit: 35 -- Max hit: 74 -- DMG to PC: 0 958 seconds. 2.0 seconds per attempt

    Next I parsed dps including the offhand pairing weapons of similar ratios:

    Fists/Fists -- DMG: 19880 -- DPS: 22 -- Scaled: 22 -- Punch: 19880 -- % dmg as normal: 100% -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 704 -- Hits: 443 -- Missed: 261 -- Accuracy: 62.9% -- Avg Hit: 44 -- Max hit: 100 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Minohten Hero Tonfa (19/26)/Fists of Darkness (12/18) -- DMG: 24277 -- DPS: 27 -- Scaled: 27 -- Punch: 24277 -- % dmg as normal: 100% -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 1201 -- Hits: 763 -- Missed: 438 -- Accuracy: 63.5% -- Avg Hit: 31 -- Max hit: 91 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Anklesmasher (10/20)/- Centi Warhammer (15/32)- DMG: 19561 -- DPS: 22 -- Scaled: 22 -- Crush: 19561 -- % dmg as normal: 100% -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 1141 -- Hits: 705 -- Missed: 436 -- Accuracy: 61.8% -- Avg Hit: 27 -- Max hit: 66 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Assuming no blunder in the parses, level 50 monk fists parse about equal to .50 ratio weapon and a delay of something slower than 32 delay. Not complaining but not the 20/26 ratio that some believe.
    Wiji likes this.
  2. Momentum Elder

    Am I missing something here, or are not even a single one of these classic weapons?

    Fists won't be king once expansions start unlocking.
  3. AB-Muvien Elder

    What expansion the weapons are from dosnt matter much in this test though ... ?

    Its easy to see that the fists are definatly higher damage than 19 and that the delay are considerable slower than 26.

    It dosnt make them bad, they are still amazing but its nowhere near the 20/26 as OP posted.
  4. Kalamurv Journeyman

    The fists are 20/26. Your parse is lacking a couple things. First of all is not nearly long enough to overcome the streakiness of the random number generator, amd secondly with such a short parse it's hard to even out the random double amd triple attacks. You would need to leave it going for at least a few hours, and best to get at least 12
    Simone likes this.
  5. Dersk Elder

    You overestimate the difficulty in noticing the.difference in 26 delay verses something closer to 40.
  6. Brogett Augur

    Measuring delays over 20 is trivial. Just do an unhasted parse and count the number of attack rounds by looking at the unique timestamps. There may be some slight fluctuation as EQ occasionally splits a round over two seconds if it was logging during the tick (eg 1:2:3.999 and 1:2:4.000), but it's very rare and you'll get the ballpark figure without long long parses.

    Damage is also trivial on a short parse. A few minutes is enough to observe spikes of commonly seen hits. These usually fall out from the formula, eg the "2x damage" spike. (Actually 2x + damage bonus, but not sure how much that is at 50.)
    Simone likes this.
  7. Sandrito Elder

    I think 30 minutes is enough to give a hint, and the hint is that fists are not 20/26 on ragefire at 50 as a few people have said they are.
    Anyways I'm always running a parser and casters (wiz, necro, mage ) are on top regardless of monk dps.
  8. Thash Augerer

    Look at the max hits. The fists hit harder than a 19 damage weapon - even without the damage bonus. The average hit is higher. You make no mention of haste buffs, but they are obviously in effect for at least *some* of the parses. This seems to prove that they are at least 20 damage, so - what's the true delay for fists at 50? Just parse without haste and let us know.
  9. Potawatomi Augur

    From the last set of TLP...

    From the Monk forums...

    There are certain things that have already been figured out, seeing as this is an old game. Also, when it comes to parsing, the longer the better. For reasons that have been explained but you chose to ignore. Have fun on TLP!
  10. Thash Augerer

    It doesn't take a long parse to determine that they are at least 20 damage, as has been proven, or that the per hit damage output is fine as is. And it doesn't take a 30+ minute parse, then, to answer the one remaining relevant question - what's the real delay of monk fists at level 50?
  11. Potawatomi Augur

    Why even ask? The numbers cited are what were changed during SoF, iirc. If you don't agree with them you're more thank welcome to do the work on your own.
  12. Thash Augerer

    Because it's relevant to the discussion. It's not a matter of "agreeing with" "changes", it's about understanding the current game mechanics of everquest on the TLP. These parses are useless, because the parameters aren't specified. I'd go so far as to say they are biased, and intentionally misrepresent the situation with monk fists, lacking any sort of proof to the contrary.

    So, they're demonstrably 20 damage. Whats the unbuffed delay? There is literally nothing else to discuss here. I was idly hoping someone would provide information that is actually helpful.
  13. Laurb New Member

    I performed these parses and can assure all I have misrepresented nothing. No haste buffs or haste of any kind. The parses are easy to duplicate and I suggest anyone who doubt to parse them yourself. One of the reasons I posted them is because the level 50 fists where never parsed to show a 20/26 ratio. I can find no evidence to support it. I also disagree with the claim current level 50 fists are ”demonstrably 20 damage”. For those who claim so, please demonstrate. I would like to understand your reasoning. Cheers.
  14. Simone Augur

    It's right there in your parse. Max hit 100 damage. None of the other weapons you tested had a max hit that high. The 19 damage Tonfa only had a max hit of 91. So that would suggest that monk fists have slightly higher damage than the Tonfa and guess what 20 just happens to be slightly higher than 19.
  15. Laurb New Member

    I see. I did not think of using max hit as an indicator. If the 20 damage is taken as real the delay can be calculated by using the seconds per attempt and using the ratio of the know delay weapons. (Delay/Seconds per attempt).

    Tonfa 26/1.5 = 17.3, Ulak 20/1.2 = 16.6, Centi 32/2.0 = 16.0. These average out to 16.6. 16.6 x 2.3 seconds per attempt for fists = 38 delay. Very rough approximation then for the level 50 fists then is 20 damage 38 delay.
  16. Raynard Augur

    I parsed this on test not long ago, they are absolutely 21/38.

    Maybe they are different on the prog servers though? No one seemed to care when I said so right after launch.
  17. Laurb New Member

    Raynard, I wish I had seen your parse before I went through the trouble! Can you post a link of your post? My parses were on live server . I would think things are the same on TLP as it was pointed out in my link in original that the monk fists would stay as is and not be as per classic. It caused folks to believe monks would be vastly OP in TLP. Cheers!
  18. Thash Augerer

    Thank you, I apologize for seeming to impugn your intentions on parsing that, the unmentioned haste buffs put the matter into question. 21/38 makes much more sense.
  19. Laurb New Member

    Thanks Thash. Appreciate the post. Cheers.
  20. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    1 Delay = 1/10th of a second. So if anything your seconds per attempt means that all of those weapons are actually faster than they are listed.

    I believe that what you've done is divide your total time by the total number of attack attempts; which would include the times which you double or triple attacked. You need to instead need to look for the 1 attack per second, 2 attacks per second, and 3 attacks per second; and then add those together. That will give you the number of attack rounds; which is what the delay determines. I will bet that when you do that division you will get somewhere between 2.6 and 3 seconds per attack round; which would be what you would expect since the delay for bare hth in that skill range is 26 delay (2.6 seconds). The reason that it will be between 2.6 and 3 is because our logs only display full seconds not tenths of a second as well as the issue that Brogett mentioned.

    The longer the parse the more exact this measurement would be as it would be. I've got a level 50 monk, I'll do a parse today post it up this afternoon or after work tonight. With the numbers.

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