Let's take a serious look at being a PvP server

pvp isn't all grieving like u guys obviously think it is.. u occasionally get that guy with a lvl 16 twink who farms people in crushbone but i mean really the only reason u can be mad is if u chain run back to crushbone to think hes gonna let u have the zone most people let u loot and scoot and even some help u after pking u .. i know for a fact when new people come to zek most of them are either plvled and put in a guild or refuse to guild with people and get super butt hurt over a pvp death surprisingly enough its not the end of the world if u die pvp. i would give it serious thought on a pvp progression server due to the mass number of people who would play on it cuz its new and realize Vanilla EQ wasnt horrible like pvp is now where u can literally hit people for 120k dmg in 1 single hit from a rogue or do 100k+ Dot rounds from necros or 80% nukes from wizard or insta death from sk's , i would reccomend if daybreak was to do a pvp prog server to slow it down and tweak pvp things u know are coming like in luclin when manaburn came out and u could 100% people with it stuff like that but just my 2 cents hoping for a pvp prog server!

This. And, there are plenty of ways to limit PvP to raiders as I just said...if the UberCompetitives resist any option that results in additional loot entering the world; whether due to hyper-classicity arguments or the gear saturation boogeyman, then PvP moves way up the list on things that increase fairness.

Anyone mentioning PVP as an answer to raid problems obviously never played on Rallos Zek pre-instance days when several big raiding guilds were competing for raid content. There's a reason that server was far behind live on raid completions and it wasn't due to lack of people wanting to raid and largely wasn't due to the guilds not getting along. It was due to griefers just wanting to see other people fail.

Actually, I WAS on Rallos Zek pre-instance days. I didn't raid until late Kunark, and was with a weaker guild; which ought to be a prime "griefer" (in quotes because PvP isn't griefing) target, yet, less than 5% of the time did I have a raid get attacked. In fact, I have no actual memories of it happening; intellectually I know it did, but so rare that I can't remember any cases. Was it possible the big league guilds (Ascending Dawn, MiM, Wudan, etc) got attacked more? Yes, but unless it was other big guilds attacking them, I don't think the server's random PKers constituted a serious threat.

And in any event, compared to what went on in TLP 2.0, PvP would be a huge improvement.

I played on Vallon Zek for years, so I am a fan of classic EQ PvP, but post SoL the gear and resists make EQ PvP very unbalanced.

Does the 'Guild War' function work? If not, get it working and use that to settle raid deputes.

Another option, turn in your Tome of Discord...

Hmmm

The /guildwar command does not work, it has been suggested before, I know it was reported about on Fippy as a means to help resolve some disputes, it was never fixed.

I actually was talking about the big guilds and the small amount of players it took to bring the raiding scene to a complete halt. Point is, it takes less people to grief an entire server on a PVP server than it does for a whole guild to grief other guilds on a non-PVP server. This should be /thread.

Yeah that's a good point. I'm probably not going to even try to avoid talking out my in this thread so yeah PvP in EQ has always been tenuous at best, sometimes really fun, but I think you have to be a special kind of crazy to really love it (and this has included me at times).

PvP i would vote for. It is one of the best solutions to the raiding problem although even that wont stop everything we dislike about the way certain guilds choose to kill mobs.

Either PvP or the "all raid mobs spawn simultaneously throughout each expansion" or both is the only solution i can really see to the raid problem. (I know it is not a perfect solution, there are problems with both of these solutions....but i do think both of these can a) Actually be done by DBG and b) Eliminate more problems than they create.)

PvP would only work if it was teams deity with no level range, like Sullon Zek. Hardcoded teams fixes lame crossteaming, and no level limit outside the early zones fixes immortal healers.

Asymmetrical deity teams adds some flavor and changes the game up a bit. For example good and neutral teams get no necro or sk or big races, but evil team gets no pal dru rng and faction work.

Tallon-Vallon-Rallos were carebear servers and had the same issues as regular servers.

Rallos Zek is the perfect example of how PvP can solve everything if the top guild/guilds are not psychopaths but actually care about the server health more than anything else.

It is the model that would fix everything.....I just dont know if thats what people want. I think PvP should go for a vote for sure though.

What in the world makes you think those are the kind of top guilds we'll have on progression? If we had guilds like that we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Bingo. Any PvP vote should definitely not be limited to a simple Yes PvP or No PvP, as there are variations that will keep the masses from getting "griefed".

Team based PvP (i.e. Sullon) would guarantee that there is constant warring, imo, whereas Rallos style would be more of a deterrent.

I would play on a Sullonesk PvP ruleset server, but only through Velious. After that, there are some serious class balancing issues.

FFA and level limits create terrible servers. They're basically regular servers where people can be more aggressive for no reason.

Hardcoded teams allows for PvP while keeping community intact out of necessity. Plus I personally like the added flare of not having access to alllall classes within a team.

To a pvp server I say: Good luck.

I think it's kinda dumb and I wouldn't lobby for it, but I hope everyone gets what they want...

I think only a very small # of people are into EQ PvP and the rest of us don't welcome the unnecessary risk of getting randomly killed in the open world for no reason whatsoever other than some dork in his mom's basement who plays 24/7/365 has way superior gear and wants to flex his e-p**n by killing me after I've spent an inordinate amount of time grinding my way to the depths of lower guk or some place. Or the groups of players who think roving around in packs, killing people somehow makes them cool or intimidating like they're Jesse James or some crap.

If there are teams, it just seems like evil/neutral/good would affirmatively choose to attack other teams, regardless of whether provoked by the raiding behaviour of other guilds.

And level limits, not having them is definitely a recipe for 50s farming 10s.

Remember - while I *personally* want full PvP, what I'm actually proposing is PvP intended to replace instancing/GM involvement/etc.

Level limited PvP means you have low level healers healing max level chars in PvP with impunity.

On Sullon Zek you had to be within 4 or 8 levels to lose exp or be lootable in pvp. If we're talking no corpse runs, then you literally lose nothing from dying to an out of range player.

I didn't mean farming as in looting or causing exp loss, it's just become the word I use for repeatedly killing.

If we did the raid flagging thing, and made it "hard coded", then unflagged wouldn't be able to heal flagged. Granted, that would mean that raiders couldn't go around helping out casuals in exp groups, but that would be better than out-of-range healing.

That said, out-of-range healing would be an issue, but more of an issue out in the open zones. PvP between raids in, say, Plane of Fear, that isn't going to happen due to level 46 requirement.

I prefer deity based, having done RZ and SZ back in the day. RZ discouraged PvP so much so that typically killing other players without an extremely good reason often got you blacklisted. On SZ you PK'd with a purpose - your enemy was your hardcored enemy and you were supposed to kill him. Teams controlled certain zones. Battles had clearly defined sides.

It also made character creation and team selection interesting and important.