Let's revamp the necro wounds line...

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Ravanta Suffer, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    Wait, did he just make a post with necro, and revamp in the subject line? There are meme's about the meme's about the original posts on a necro dot revamp being forgotten about, rediscovered, and lost all over again on the topic.

    This post is not a request to revamp necro dots. I don't even want a full necro dot revamp. I think in general, necros are fine. I know I am.

    An area we are not fine at however, is swapping out 5 (or 4, depending on your views) wounds dots only to have to keep up the spell swapping that has been necro101 for as long as anyone can remember.

    I'm not proposing an end to spell-swapping for us. So what am I wanting to talk about?

    Taking the wounds line, and combining them into 2 spells.

    To make it simpler to explain..let's rename the spells for the purpose of this post.

    Necrotizing wounds is nicknamed NW1
    Pernicious wounds is nicknamed PW1
    Mortiferous wounds is nicknamed NW2
    Cytotoxic woulds nicknamed PW2
    Septic wounds is nicknamed NW3

    The NW and PW spell lines would stack with each other, but the NW series would not stack with the other NW spells, and the same with the PW line. This functionality exists with other classes dots, it could easily be done to this line for ours.

    So for example, at level 110, a necro's 2 best wounds spells to use would be NW2 and PW2.
    At level 115, a necro's 2 best wounds spells to use would be NW3, and PW2.
    At level 120, a necro's 2 best wounds spells to use would be NW3, and PW3.

    The damage for the higher ranks of the respective lines is combined a little, to come close to approximating what the lower versions would be.

    When a necro wants to use the wounds line, they would be using 2 spells, not 5 (or 4). The advantage for the necro is that they would never have to switch out more than 2 dot at a time.

    The advantage to the raid, is that instead of one necro taking up 10 detrimental slots just for the wounds line, they would only be taking up 4.

    In most modern raids, the wounds line is a joke at this point. They take too long to proliferate, the game is becoming more and more burst damage focused. Using Griklor as an example...they don't proliferate if the wounds wears off when Griklor is in the air of course, and Griklor will soon be stripping all debuffs when he flies off according to a post Absor made. They are naturally useless in restless assault, the first 2 raids in tofs, and if memory serves most combat phases of Tserrina are also over before they proliferate even if we are using funeral pyre.

    So the small number of chances for a necro to use these lines in raids is met with having to switch out a large number of spells, and also take up an unnecessary amount of detrimental slots.

    TLDR: The wounds line in their current form in current raids require too much spell-swapping for a class already burdened by it, and take up too many detrimental slots. For the raids where they should be used, a big QoL improvement for necs (and the raids they are in) would be to combine them into 2 spells.
    Sancus likes this.
  2. Ibudin Augur

    Thinking out of the box Ravanta nice job.

    I'd prefer they don't mess with wounds. The necro dots have "kind of" got themselves revamped already with the fact they wear off faster so over all we're dropping less dots on mobs then we did a year ago. Maybe take this even a little further, up the damage and reduce the time.

    I swap 2 spells at a time, I have my spell sets set up as such, I know there are necros who have spell sets set up to swap 1 at a time.

    I'll go back to my original request over a year ago - dots from a particular class should stack on top of each other - 3 necros cast Cytotixic wounds, you'd see the debuff on the mob with a little 3 on it. Why we're hamstrung on that while melee can hack away at a mob with no block to how many melee attacks a mob can take is unfair (lol, I try).
  3. menown Augur

    Firstly, I am delighted to have this discussion with 2 competent necros.

    I fully agree that DPS wise, the raiding necro is sufficiently at where he/she needs to be. I also fully agree that we are not fine in the area of swapping spells to stay relevant. I am curious, however, as to why using 2 wounds spell lines is your targeted number for differing spell lines. Why not 3? Why not 1? For your argument that Wounds takes up too many debuff slots in raids, wouldn't having only 1 Wounds line (1 base dot + 1 doom dot) be best?

    There is a lot of bad raid design for casters in ToV raids. Over half of the raids are several short duration encounters, some with adds that have little HP. Looking at a recent 'Servant of the Sleeper' parse that I have, DoTs accounted for 71.35% of my DPS, DDs + Procs 12.16%, and Pet damage 16.49%. Out of that 71.35% DoT damage, my 5 wounds lines did approximately half, 35.6%, with the base DoT doing 8.49% and the Proliferation (doom) DoT doing 27.11% of total damage. It is sad when the level 95 Necrotizing Wounds DoT does more total damage in 1 cast than a level 114 Pyre of Klraggek Rk. III in 1 cast. In conclusion, short duration encounters kill a necros DPS.

    As mentioned, modern raids have become less and less friendly to the whole Splurt and Wounds DoT concepts. "They take too long to proliferate, the game is becoming more and more burst damage focused."

    Wounds is a major culprit for taking up debuff slots. 2 debuff slots per spell at times with 5 spells = 10 debuff slots. I share your sentiment about a nerf to this line if it was consolidated. As mentioned above, 1 wounds DoT is very powerful. Combining all 5 would take the spotlight off of Druid's 'Nature's Fervid Wrath' DoT and shine it onto Necro's Wounds DoT.

    I don't know how coders would get this to work. Would the duration reset based on the last person that cast the DoT? That would also screw over the first necro who casts and wants the proliferation to occur more quickly.

    I think you both mentioned that an alternative is "up the damage and reduce the time." However, this would not alleviate the number of debuffs. I would propose reducing the duration on both the base DoT and the proliferation, and a consolidation into 1 line. This would allow the spell to be used in more situations, hopefully removing artificial handicaps that the class has with shorter duration fights. We would have to cast the spell more often, but at least we would only be casting 1 spell instead of 5.
  4. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    In my opinion, it doesn't seem likely that they would be willing to combine the dots into 1. It would be ideal of course. I just don't think that it would be done. One of the reasons why, is there is an inherent benefit of combining the spells together. Let's say there are multiple targets that the wounds line is valid on. If you only need to cast 1 spell (or 2 as mentioned in my post) per target, you're going to have a much easier time getting it onto those targets than if you were casting them as they are now.
  5. menown Augur

    That is a valid argument. Even Druid's 'Nature's Fervid Wrath' has a recast timer of 18 seconds, preventing them from stacking their best DoT on multiple targets. But the Druid's Doom DoT 'Chill of the Arbor Tender', which has the exact same duration and Doom effect duration as Wounds, has a recast timer of 1.5 seconds. This is identical to Wounds. Where these 2 spells differ is how much weight is put into the base DoT versus the Doom DoT.

    Chill of the Arbor Tender Rk. III
    Druid (115)
    1: Decrease Current Hit Points by 7963 per tick
    2: Increase Curse Counter by 18
    5: Cast on Duration Fade: Frost of the Arbor Tender III

    Frost of the Arbor Tender III
    Druid (115)
    1: Decrease Current Hit Points by 18041 per tick

    Septic Wounds Rk. III
    Necromancer (115)
    1: Decrease Current Hit Points by 3191 per tick
    4: Increase Curse Counter by 22
    7: Cast on Duration FAde: Septic Proliferation III

    Septic Proliferation III
    Necromancer (115)
    1: Decrease Current Hit Points by 18878 pet tick

    I just want to point out, because you believe that consolidation of Wounds would be, in your opinion, OP. Consolidation does not mean adding up the base damage of all 5 lines. If that were the case, then yes, Wounds would be OP. Looking at the historical data of the Druid's level 105 'Chill of the Corpsetender', we can extrapolate what the consolidated Wounds line would look like.
    This would be an obvious DPS decrease from just usuing our current top 2 wounds spells. This is also why I'm in favor of reducing the duration of the spell. Too much of the necro's DPS comes from stacking this line of spell. Especially in ToV, where the the benefit of using wounds does not outweigh the costs for the limited opportunities we have to use it.