Lets be real Paladins (2021 Beta)

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Ofearl, Sep 23, 2021.

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  1. Warpeace Augur

    I played around with this spell today and found it nice in the way it provides healing. It seemed automatic if you were hit it healed. Not a random proc like many of our self healing abilities are and seemed to be more inline with how Paladin defensive healing should work. If more of our small heal abilities worked in this manner our defensive healing would be fine. As it currently is its range dependent and that's not a good thing. Stacking multiple abilities with this reflexive healing ability would create the passive healing the class lacks and be more reliable.

    I did find the cast time (recast if multiples) and resist were slow and poor against ToV mobs as a reference.
  2. Chaosflux Augur

    Mark as a meaningful passive healing source would actually be pretty cool
  3. Petalonyx Augur

    Agree! This extra fast pacing removes opportunities for tactical play and strategy. It's just prep and spam. I wish we had more resource play too, but people seem to just hate being low on mana/end and having to restrain themselves or make tough resource decisions.

    Getting off topic here, but just had to comment on this broader issue, sorrry!
    Wulfhere likes this.
  4. Chaosflux Augur

    Alternative resource systems always felt better for tactical play, where you have to tactically build and use the resource. Where as the EQ system of mana/end that is purely timegating feels chunkier for tactical battle imo.

    Vanguards Paladin valor points were cool and fun
    Early EQ where you just... did nothing alot of the time to conserve ehhh that was less cool and fun

    In my opinion.
  5. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    We need our group heals brought down to 1 second cast time.

    We need our stuns brought down to instant cast time.

    Our undead combo nuke (all our dd stuff other than crushes) should do far more damage than it does. Or at least instead of a small % bump vs summoned or undead, make it like 10x higher than the base so it matters.

    Our buff proc needs a massive damage increase and/or a big proc mod.

    Burst needs the special global cool down removed.

    Our alliance should be buffed to be in line with SKs.

    Need an AA line to reduce pureforge down to 10-12 minutes recast.

    Our HoT should be made to be worth memming.

    Protective vie% should go up to 20% so its worth chaining on the MT for something other than the heal portion more of the time.

    Bring back lifetap procs for the love of...the arx 2her proc is still better than CoV procs.

    Upgrade the TBL evolving boots so that the focus goes to 120 just like the other TBL evolving items. The ONLY class punished by this atm is paladins. Tanks are the only classes that probably or might still be using these next expansion.
    Ofearl, Stephen51 and Chaosflux like this.
  6. Wulfhere Augur

    Generally agree, with some caveats

    Assuming server lag is a chronic issue, more damage seems the way to go.

    Since it encourages spamming single target damage spells, I don't feel the current alliance deserves a spell gem at any strength. I want paladins to cooperate on protecting in some way, i.e. fulminating a dragon glyph would do nicely.

    Pureforge could be active 100% of the time and still go unnoticed, so yeah that.

    I chain cast it now. I'd like it to have a big +hate value like Valiant to help me when I'm tanking the target.

    Yep. This nerf has been a feeble attempt to prevent SK from being overpowered. I've long asked that Paladins get unique weapons so that we aren't collateral damage.
    Stephen51 likes this.
  7. Wulfhere Augur

    And it scales with ripostes! After two expacs, Mark of the Jade Cohort is still my vote for the best paladin spell upgrade in years. It actually earned a precious spell gem.

    Sadly it retains the trappings of a cleric spell rather then being a quick casting combat spell like the failed Mark of Sevalak spell line. Combine the paladin-best parts of each into a single spell for-the-win please.
  8. Tucoh Augur

  9. ~Mills~ Augur

    The top one has a capped heal amount and is just a spell. The bottom one is flagged as a lifetap so lots of things can amplify both its damage and its healing return. At times they could provide quite a bite of healing with say a critical twincast with mods that exceptionally healed. Which is why he changed them.

    Then on top of that a few raid folks lobbied to have the dps proc put on the knight 2h'er to gain very little in proc dps. But this took away the self healing from the 2h'er that could make the difference as to when you can use the 2h'er for a lot of group or casual folks. Unlikely to be swapped back but this new fake lifetap proc should be put on the knight 2h'er. Not every knight has raid gear to just always run around in 2h mode without a care because of their AC and hp pools verse even swarms of group content.
    Wulfhere and Tucoh like this.
  10. Wulfhere Augur

  11. Warpeace Augur

  12. Elemental Augur

    I love my paladin only class that out parses me is a necro
  13. Warpeace Augur

    Epic click reduced to a .25 cast time if not instant. This is something all classes could use.

    Not sure if it was mentioned or not.
    Maedhros and Ozon like this.
  14. Chaosflux Augur

    Do you not play with any dps classes that have even a whiff of support? Yeh theres a couple undead fights you can do alright on .

    But there is absolutely no way you aren't getting absolutely destroyed on the nightly combine by pretty much everyone if you can't slay.

    Which there is no reason to believe the proliferation of undead is going to continue in Terror of Luclin. Locking our dps to a target type is highly disadvantageous.
  15. Chaosflux Augur

    Its heal is capped

    The lifetap proc on the Zealators Ambition has no limit

    Last time I bothered to looked my average heal on the 1hander lifetap proc aug from TDS and the war shield aug > the Remote heal proc au

    You are able to boost the crit damage/crit rat, boost your heal crit rate and boost the healing effectiveness

    Which based on how those lifetap procs work you end up getting significantly more healing at the end then the Vamp Consumption procs

    If we had a modern Life Sap X or something with say a 1600 hp traditional lifetap, it would blow Vampirism Consumption away in healing throughput.

    Since the Current Vampiric Consumption proc barely beats a 600hp lifetap from TBM for healing throughput
  16. Shmid Journeyman

    Things that would be nice:

    Riposte disc on deflection timer. Can't tell me after having the riposte skill for so many years a character couldn't have figured out how to have a short duration focused reflex to riposte everything coming at them like they can with blocking and the like!

    Faster group heals, with larger heal. Can crit group heals all we want, they just don't make that large of an impact these days, have to hit two of them and at least one of them twin-casted to do half a persons HP.

    Splash that is PBAE on selected target, keep it on normal splash timer. Could memorize both (unlikely) which allows for use of free targeting and targeted (mob / person) usage.

    Cleansing nukes, we have cleansing melee on undead, why not see if its possible to have our DD's have cleansing hits on them too!

    Hand of Tunare AA to work with Protective line as well.

    More hate on stuns and crush's.

    Drasticly reduce the reuse time on timer 6 crush / stun. 24 seconds? Really? With limited spell slots as it is, who is using something like this with 24 second cool down?

    Change Stormwall Stance line of spells into AA's with a 15-20 min cool down time.

    Change Renewing Steel line of spells into AA's with a 5-10 min cool down time.

  17. Warpeace Augur

    Our group heals (Wave line) seem fine value wise, they just need hastened so they cast faster, 1.5 sec is just painfully slow in combat now days. From what your saying are our solo, group or raid? Also if your not proactive healing your already behind. This could also be gear dependent...so several variables.

    Our current splash could be moved to PBAE to alleviate the hassles of dealing with geography. As it is its dumb to try and cast a free target spell but the game says you cant cast it here, there or there either.

    If your that worried about the timer for our Crush on timer 6 your not realizing if you want to tank and hold agro you basically have to go all in and use multiple AA and spells in a multi bind to do it well. When you do that the 24 sec timer is nothing. Its not ideal or easy mode but its doable unless another tank class is flexing. They could shorten the recast as it seems like a penalty for it doing more damage than the other crush, but if you look at the damage from crushes its insulting even though they will be on your spell bar the majority of the time. Crush damage could be multiplied several times and not be overpowered allowing us to agro and dps a bit.

    I believe changing Stormwall Stance to an AA line would be a horrible waste of valuable AA line space since those are limited. A situational spell at best depending on play style. The cool down your proposing wastes even asking for it to be converted to an AA since the spell is a much faster recast, 5 minutes?

    Same for Renewing Steel since there is only 10 procs on a 2 minute duration, leaving some players with over 1 minute of downtime before it can be recast. Unless this line if greatly improved it does not rate an AA line and is situational at best for claiming a spell gem. Another waste for asking for a 5-10 minute recast since the spell is already a 2 minute recast.

    Why would we ever want to go backward in power or ability?

    I get it your wanting to free up spell gems, but here is the thing. You can only effectively use so many spell gems per encounter. The hard part is knowing and understanding what ones give you the best return.
  18. Shmid Journeyman

    What part of having to use two to three waves to do more than half the groups health did you not understand? Cast time doesn't mean jack if the heal is so small it is a joke barely touching the ae damage raids take, heck even some group mobs have large enough ae's to show what a joke a wave heal is. Which is why we are in need of both faster and larger wave heals. Thought that would have been simple to understand for most, guess not.


    In group settings, its easy to have a spell set that allows you to just be pure hate. I'm primarily a raider, and our roles are a heck of a lot more complex than, "me tank mob, me big pally rawr" its more like tank this, heal that, top that person off, rez that moron, kite this for few min while spinning plates on top of poles over your head. Hard to have a all hate focused spell line up when you are constantly changing roles, or simply are expected to be doing all those roles at the same time - which well played paladins are currently doing.

    I'd assume most of us have figured out how to have a base core set of spells, then swap out couple spells per event and even mid event as needed. My point of asking to have a unnecessarily long timer reduced is in hopes of improving our core spell set, because again, most of us have to do more than just one role at a time.


    We all know the pain limited spell slots gives us. There are a lot of spells we would like to have loaded, but just don't due to the limitations and how big of an impact they make. The reason for asking to move some things to aa's is so they will actually get used. As it is, they arn't used, ever, not even when solo'ing, molo'ing, swing dancing with that hot vampire chick etc. Why ask for blatantly long reuse times on them? Well simple really, ask for ultra fast reuse and dev's will most likely outright refuse, ask for close to the actual reuse and they will again say keep it as a spell, but ask for it to be bit longer reuse time, they will think, hey it wouldn't be overpowering, and it will actually get used, we can look at this. Doesn't really matter though.

  19. Chaosflux Augur

    The Timer 6 crush complaint in re: recast is valid, the spell is our least good for throughput on hate. Its only real use is for a 1-2 crush for snap at the opening of tagging a mob, and in that role its just ok. The hate value and damage really don't justify a 24s recast timer in 2021.
  20. Stephen51 Augur

    It may just be me, but I feel we could use something to smooth our mitigation a little. I seem to have more health spikes while tanking than the other tank classes. It seems ironic if we are supposed to be a defensive tank we (arguably) have less dps than the other tank classes, and take more damage.
    I like a lot of the ideas posted here. Keep it up!
    Waitwhat likes this.
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