Lets be real Paladins (2021 Beta)

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Ofearl, Sep 23, 2021.

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  1. Wulfhere Augur

    Some of them have a slot that does 1 point to SPA 0 (Health) that enables twin casting for those classes.

    The important difference between say cleric and druid is that the cleric spell has a 1 tick duration, making its SPA 0 slot a HoT and so preventing it from twin heal. It's a bit convoluted. The obvious reason to add SPA 0 slots is to enable twin casting in the first place. For clerics to have it (normalizing?) but then also put in the duration values to disable it is weird. Josh's bug report might get that looked at.
  2. josh Augur

    The ranger one really adds to my annoyance though I gotta say. The inconsistencies are so widespread I just don't know how anybody can look at that and say, nah all of this was intentional, no bugs here. The skill attack portion of the ranger ability can twinstrike. why on earth can the paladin composite heal not twinheal.

    put the blocker on the initial spell, and the stun, allow the heal to twinheal.

    edit: I don't think it can twinstrike because it doesn't have an endurance cost, it has a mana cost though soo, still frankly confused by the incosistency.
  3. Wulfhere Augur

    Ranger's Summer Sleet looks like it can twinheal (i.e. 4: Increase Current HP by 0) the cast of Summer's Sleet Splash (that is blocked from quading). Again the SPA 0 slot trick is used to enable rangers but not paladins (as you note).
  4. Chaosflux Augur

    Spell changes listed by Importance
    Burst - Reduce Quiet time

    Brilliant - add a % chance to add an additional twin heal charge, this spe was originally created to give us a force multiplication to equal twin crits of SKs, ability has not kept up with crit rates of game in that regard

    Crushes - Reduce cast time to instant

    Not really a concern but would be a QOL thing, Allow doctrines to do 1/3 base damage to any target type

    AA listed by relative importance
    Focus: Valiant Defense
    Focus: Protective Proclamation
    Healing Light: allow it to proc off any detrimental spell as opposed to just stuns, or at bare minimum allow it to proc off crush/denouncement line
    Blessing of Life: Its relatively not great
    Stephen51 likes this.
  5. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    All great feedback so far! Keep it up as I will be sending in all this info to the devs and trying to make us a bit better!

    And yes I know the harmony lines is a great tool for pulling. When looking at it as a whole from all aspects of game play, I see mercs casting a heal spell then the mob is stunned. Then adds come and wipes the group. In my game play, I just pull whatever is in the back and deal with it. Those of us on top can do it, but I want all levels of game play to be fun.

    And Crazop… the wizard forum is elsewhere! Alliance spell is currently 100% unless in its current form. There are times when it can be used and if it were tweaked, Id use it.
  6. Szilent Augur

    Brilliant ain't nothing to do with Shadow Knights; Brilliant exists in the set with Glorious Denunciation (cle), Sundew Blessing (dru), and Frost Gift (shm). They came into existence together at level 85 and have been upgraded ever since.

    The chance to get a second Twinheal charge (the other versions have always made two) would be a worthy upgrade to a tool that's popular with Paladins.
  7. Litefighter Lorekeeper

    Paladin version of Presence of Fear. Do not even need a change to how the aa works. Swap "Seizes" for "Stun" in the description. It is essentially a stun anyway.

    Blessing of Life can use a upgrade. (more then what is planned to be on par with Touch of the Cursed).

    Make splash 2 versions one with cure, other with a little more heal and make them true free target just like Gift of Life. No more searching for some flat ground to cast on.

    Increase aggro on crush / stun.

    Overall bump in healing AND damage on DD spells would be greatly appreciated.

    Tweak to Lay on Hands. Have to be x distance from target and x distance from PC for it to fire. Being on back side of mob with HUGE target ring puts me out of range to use LoH on Tank.

    Gift of Life and Hand of Piety should refresh on rez like Lay on Hands.

    Increase bonus from Blessing of Light.
    Maedhros and Szilent like this.
  8. Wulfhere Augur

    This does happen too often. I work around it by being nearer the tank, usually on the side or shoulder of the giant mob.
  9. Wulfhere Augur

    I want to be able to do grab/debuff/CC more then one mob, more often then Beacon and Lodestar allow:

    I want TGAE spells that hit up to 8 targets for:

    Fervent Audacity
    Mark of the Jade Cohort
    Shackles of Tunare
    Halt the Dead
    Placating Words
  10. Maedhros High King

    This is a really low hanging fruit to increase the range.
    I shouldn't have to expose myself to a frontal effect to cast LOH while standing right next to the main tank.
    I get the role playing concept of actually "laying hands" but very few or no other heals have such a small cast range restriction.
    If I can not be on the back side of Vulak or any other large mob and hit the main tank with LOH, its too small a range.
  11. Fenthen aka Rath

    You should be at the side of MT targets, so that if the MT goes down you should be immediately tanking, and don't flip the mob to all the melee. That might put you in closer range?

    Alternatively, just man up and tank the thing yourself. Warriors are overrated.
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  12. Maedhros High King

    This is not how a paladin or any tank should raid unless they are 2nd or maybe even 3rd up on the tank order.
    If you're dpsing from the front then you're taking riposte (not to mention frontal dd's which are plentiful with all the dragons)and causing healing resources that are meant for the main tank to be wasted on you.
    Your personal dps will be worse because the mobs defenses are better from the front.

    Any tank class can be main tank, I tank plenty, but the post request which I replied to specified hitting LOH as a pass through heal on a different tank.

    Bro your suggestions call into question your skill and experience as a paladin.
    Ozon and Tucoh like this.
  13. Chaosflux Augur

    In the original spell package for UF beta, glorious was not included, a paladin asked using the justification I laid out for getting a twin heal and we received the glorious line, which is why it only had 1 charge because 2 was viewed as far to advantageous relative to the toolkits SK had at the time.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  14. Warpeace Augur

    The Audacity line could use some hastening, down to .4 would be nice. Down to .25 would be even better and reduce the cooldown since we find ourselves kiting more.

    After thinking about it Instant cast would be a better option for the class with this spell line.

    Heroic leap - reduce the animation
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  15. Chaosflux Augur

    What why you no like the heroic leap animation?

    You want it without the fling to effect? How will I know when to turn the doom music on then.
  16. Warpeace Augur

    Just tone it down by half ;), I think the whole raid will still know we used it.
  17. Fenthen aka Rath

    I said side. Not front. I question your reading ability. I've also tanked everything in this expansion, I'm good there, no need for personal attacks when you have no idea who I am.
  18. Maedhros High King

    You said be "at the side of MT targets". I read that as standing beside the main tank.
    If you meant it to be at the side of the mob, you certainly articulated it in a weird way.

    For a tank there is not really any such thing as being at a mobs "side". There is either the front, where you're taking riposte, or the back where you are not. What you're talking about, being on the side, is functionally the same as being at its back.
    The only case that being on the "side" matters is if a dragon sized mob is going to do a wing attack on the side, but thats not a typical melee attack.
    If you are next up in the main tank order, you should be standing right next to the main tank, at the front of the mob with 2nd most agro. Thats just basic tank 101. If as the 2nd tank you are at the back or the "side" then when the main tank dies the mob will flip and hit riposte or do frontal attacks on the squishy people that are supposed to stay at the back.

    To bring this back to the original request that I was replying to, you are apparently suggesting that all a paladin does is be a main tank.
    What about guilds with more than one paladin?
    Do both, or all 3, or 4 paladins main tank at the same time? Its pretty confusing.
    You're missing the point that it would be nice if the range on Lay of Hands was increased so a paladin could do a pass through heal on the main tank in the incredibly rare chance that anyone else is tanking other than you, while standing places that are further away than "at the side of MT targets".
  19. Wulfhere Augur

    I'd like an improvement to how the new Friendly Target works.

    Right now the server controls who the target is and it can change instantly while your heal e.g. Lay on Hands or Burst or Light, etc. is being cast on the client side. Obviously, the longer cast times allow for more possible target changes during the interval.

    The problem is that the target's target that you see on the client and that you intend to heal may not get the heal at all. The server can decide to heal someone else who moves up in the hate list suddenly and even briefly. This is just as frustrating as missing a heal in the more traditional ways that this new feature is supposed to alleviate or prevent.

    To fix this, I would like the client to send the intended target along with the other spell casting event data. The server can validate the target and apply the spell to the expected and intended target.
    Waitwhat likes this.
  20. Tucoh Augur

    If paladins could choose one of:

    • Tanking
    • Healing
    • DPS
    To improve by 20% in the next expansion relative to other classes, with everything else staying balanced with where it is relative to other classes, which would you choose personally and which do you think is the right choice for the design of the paladin class?
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