Lets be real Paladins (2021 Beta)

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Ofearl, Sep 23, 2021.

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  1. Ofearl Augur

    Lets try to get some things fixed and improved for our class this upcoming expansion. Please post up what you feel we need improvements in along with possible solutions.

    My 2 issues I feel need addressed are our Alliance/coalition spells and conflulent blessing line.

    Alliance/Coalition should be something we want to mem. Spell is cast, lands on mob. 4 (not 6) damaging spells from other Paladins lands and it then procs a 3 wave ae rain heal.
    Rk 1 range 100, heal wave should be base 6300
    Rk 2 range 120, heal wave should be base 6990
    Rk 3 range 140, heal wave should be base 7680

    Confluence spell has some great aspects that just need tweaked. The stun range should be reduced from 300 to 30. The hate from it is ok, being increased from 8011 base rk 1 to base 12000 would be muchly appreciated.

    What do you want to see fixed, adjusted or improved upon.

    Are there other items/issues we have yes, but lets be feasible and realistic on this gang.
  2. Cadira Augur

    Retroactively grant paladins their own version of reavers bargain and make new ranks for both classes with updated mitigation caps.
    Petalonyx, Wulfhere and Syylke_EMarr like this.
  3. Warpeace Augur

    Renewing Steel

    The Renewing Steel line currently only has 10 procs on a 2 minute 18 sec buff on a 2 minute recast timer.

    I don't have an issue with the two minute recast its the fact you can use all the procs in under 60 seconds leaving a minute or more of complete dead time. Increase the procs to 25-30 with the two minute recast and up the mana cost if needed to justify it.

    Propitiation

    Propitiation spell line become instant cast, currently at .25 sec cast time. If your moving or the server thinks your moving it will not land.

    Crushes make them instant cast and give us a third crush on timer 4.


    Protective Consecration

    Currently a 1 sec cast, reduce to .5 sec cast time for better use in spell and AA rotation.


    Blunted Blade / Righteous Antipathy conflict

    If you attempt to use Blunted Blade disc (timer 20) while Righteous Antipathy (timer 14) is running you get the following message "Your Blunted Blade spell did not take hold. (Blocked by Righteous Antipathy) except your Blunted blade disc receives a 12 minute cooldown and is not usable.

    This looks to be caused by both Discs sharing line 4 add melee proc

    This should be changed so Blunted Blade is not usable while Righteous Antipathy is running and the ability does not get locked out while it was never used.
    Stephen51 likes this.
  4. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    100% in support of this. It's silly that Paladins don't already have a variation of Reaver's.
    Nennius and Cadira like this.
  5. josh Augur

    our composite should be better. the heal should be focusable for starters, but also, it can't even be twincast. I can only assume that composites were made this way in some attempt to make them easier to balance but if that was the goal, they achieved the opposite. Every spell like this now needs special consideration or they will eventually become completely useless. Either make them focusable and twincast capable, or start increasing them by more than the standard 10 ish percent.

    The passive heal aa, healing light, that triggers randomly when we cast a stun, provides more healing then the heal portion of our composite, this is ridiculous.

    I've brought this up a lot because it really bugs me, I'm probably going to bring it up again in the beta lol.
    Stephen51 and Szilent like this.
  6. Wulfhere Augur

    Correct, this is a slot 4 SPA 85 conflict. BB's false cool down should be reported as a bug too.

    Wrt using another slot, keep in mind that Renewing Steel is slot 7 SPA 419 and Inquisitor's Judgement is slot 6 SPA 419. The full picture of paladin imbue spells is:

    Slot 1: Instrument of Nife / Divine Might / Ardent Fury
    Slot 4: Righteous Indignation / Blunted Blade
    Slot 6: Inquisitor's Judgement
    Slot 7: Rejuvenating Steel
    Stephen51 likes this.
  7. Wulfhere Augur

    No thanks. Don't you know that Harmonious Illumination is a great pulling too that does not require LoS?! ;)
  8. Petalonyx Augur

    If i could ask for one thing, it's this.

    Paladin is supposed to be the DEFENSIVE knight. It's absolutely backwards. And, I want something to spend mana and endurance on.
    Stephen51 and Cadira like this.
  9. Wulfhere Augur

    The heal should be twin casting unless it's because it's (also) a recourse from the stun. For the rest, it's because the class level of all these (types of) spells is 255, meaning not a player spell. They can't be focused by worn gear, specifically healing. Several of the paladin's core spells are impacted by these restricted designs in ways that make the class a weaker tank:

    Harmonious Blessing line: No worn focus on heal. No witness hate on heal.
    Valiant Defense line: Focus on heal at level 98. No worn focus on heals for later ranks.
    Armor of Courage line: No worn focus on heal.
    Dichotomic line: No worn focus on heal.

    Since paladin tanking is often predicated on our healing bonus abilities, this design as applied to those abilities is a handicap. With one of those crippled abilities we have an alternative at least; i.e. use Reverent Penitence line of discs instead of Armor line.
  10. Wulfhere Augur

    I would like to see focus tab for spells I actually use:

    1. Protective line heal focus
    2. Valiant line heal focus
    3. Force of Reverence line (recourse) heal focus
    Stephen51 likes this.
  11. josh Augur


    The heal can't twincast because it specifically has a twincast blocker. all composites that damage or heal have the blocker. and no they aren't 255 they are 250, which allows for some focusing including the twincast focuses which are typically 254. but yeah, either set them to the same level as the base spell so they can benefit from all focuses, or give them more than the standard 10% boost.
  12. Wulfhere Augur

    Oh right, sorry I was mixing up Harmonious heals vs Dichotomic heals on that point.
  13. Szilent Augur

    this is not true
  14. josh Augur

    It isn't but I feel like you're being a bit pedantic. To be more clear, composites that use SPA 0 and are not procs, meaning, ones that use twinheal and twincast aa's, have the twincast blocker. things that would use twinproc or twinstrike don't.

    However, after looking at composites more, I would go so far as to say that there are enough funky things going on with composites that the whole mess qualifies as a bug, and I am going to make a bug report.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  15. Riou EQResource

    Keep in mind it is likely to be a level cap increase expansion, and spells are prob already done. Probably would be best to look at the ToV spells and expect basically those to be done again for the new levels, while the rest being next years expansion of course
  16. Cragzop Cranky Wizard


    Pedantic Szilent aside (I believe he's trying out for the lead in the Eddie Murphy 1000 words remake), there's nothing going on with Composite lines that hasn't been known by those who've actually tried them and looked at the parse.

    The twincast blocker appears on the end effects part (so you don't get x4 at the end), but not the initial spell. It's that initial spell that gets twincast (assuming it makes sense to). However, since the initial spell doesn't actually do anything but call other effects ... you don't get a twincast message, even though you can clearly see that a cast of Composite Blessing under a twincast (like bifold) will heal twice. Wizards have a block at both levels so their composite line is the only one that doesn't twincast at all. There's a history so it's not just dev fault there...

    Composite lines could stand a serious look for rebalancing, etc. because they seem to be part of the standard spells each level block (3 spells in the line now). There are some that are just clearly better, and some that you never see cast. But it's better done before the next expected new spells, and not this expansion. And I think EQ is better off looking at them as a whole rather than piecemeal.
    Stephen51 likes this.
  17. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    I love Ofearl and may be in the minority, but I actually don't want the Alliance line for paladins modified from their current crappy state. It's a no brainer now to leave it off the spell bar and move on with my life when pallying.

    Making it better enough to start having to think about adding it in certain situations would be worse (for me) than just keeping it bad. Because we all know that they won't actually step up and make the spell use a no brainer.
  18. josh Augur


    Yeah i made the bug report and composite blessing is the one that made me think there's a legit bug worth reporting there, because the only way it could be twincast by a cleric is with the bifold focus. Everything else they have requires that the heal be instant...i think, i could be missing something but I'm pretty sure this is true.
  19. Szilent Augur

    I am not being pedantic. You're plain wrong.

    Composite Winds twins
    Composite Fang twins
    Composite Paroxysm twins
    Composite Rage twins
    Composite Fussilade twins
  20. josh Augur


    I didn't say they didn't twincast i said they had a twincast blocker. None of them have the blocker on the first spell cast, but all of those that use SPA 0 have twincast blockers on the part that use SPA 0 to prevent quad casts.
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