Last Minute Class Decision - Necro vs Shaman - Raiding

Ok I am finding myself still torn between rolling a Necro or a Shaman and I can't seem to break the deadlock. I am literally about read to just flip a coin.

Normally I don't raid on the TLPs but this time I am going to be going all in on Raiding just because I have not did it much in the past. That being said I am trying to get some input on the raiding side of things for these two classes.

1) What is their role in raids?
2) Which is more fun and engaging in raids and why?
3) Which is more desirable on raids and why?
4) Which is easier to gear on raid and/or would generally have less competition for gear?
5) Which is more dependant on raid gear to enjoy playing outside of raids or putting it another way how dependant are they on raid gear?

My thoughts with the Necro are that I am likely to have quite a bit of competition on raids since I will be competing with all INT casters for gear. It is also a popular class so competing against other Necros for Necro only gear. I kind of think they might end up boring on raids i.e. toss out a couple DoTs, Sit, Med, Reapply DoTs when they drop, repeat. Over the long haul though, an extremely powerful class that is desired on raids while also being a class I can play and progress easily with or without a group. Also great for farming.

My thoughts on a Shaman are that I am likely going to have less competition on the raid for gear both due to the fact there will likely be less Shaman and the fact that much of the gear a Shaman would be interested in, might not have as strong an interest from other classes. I also feel they might have a more dynamic roll in the raid and require they be more engaged with what is going on due to the fact they will likely be doing a bit of everything on a raid such as healing, slowing, buffing, DPSing, combo of all of the above. Over the long haul I do feel they are a powerful class but outside of raiding I feel they will be more depended on groups and while they can solo well, it will be significantly more limited than with the Necro.

What are your opinions?

If you want your primary focus to be on raiding, I would strongly consider a cleric.

if you want to raid and its a coin toss 100% shaman.

Necros are dime a dozen on raids. Shamans are always needed.

I too am having a class crisis.

Wiz, Cleric, Necro, Enc, Shaman, Monk... arrg cant decide.

1) What is their role in raids? Necro = dot dps, DMF buff, pump chump. Shaman BUFFS & SLOWS with a side of heal.

2) Which is more fun and engaging in raids and why? Define fun? Shaman is more engaged.

3) Which is more desirable on raids and why?
1000% shaman over necro.

4) Which is easier to gear on raid and/or would generally have less competition for gear?
Shaman. less wis casters in chain

5) Which is more dependant on raid gear to enjoy playing outside of raids or putting it another way how dependent are they on raid gear? I'd say Shaman is more dependent since necro gets lich and you could be naked and still get by but neither is super totally dependent like a tank.

I agree a bit with mmoer. The role in raids is straight. But where you put “med” for necro, if you want to maximize dps there is no time for that. You are constantly casting all 4 fire dots, poison and disease if it lands, life taps dots and single taps near the end. That said shaman are always casting something as well. Buffing is constant. Malo slow on inc, and off heals.

I agree that fun is relative. I would chose necro because “fun” for me is being able to focus on dps. Shaman, especially in classic, is casting single target buffs on every melee in the raid. Then healing your group usually and then if you have any mana left over, some dps.

More desirable, if there are 0 of either in the raid, then yea shaman because you need one for slow. If you have 4 of each, probably necro to make the kills faster.

Lots of people start as int casters and are not int casters by velious/luclin. On mischief my guild went from 9 or 10 necros in classic to 4 in velious while overall attendance numbers did not drop. But overall I’d definitely say there are less shaman.

Gear dependent is probably shaman. Slows generate a lot of agro so you will take some hits. They don’t have the mana regen that necros do with lich so they’re gear level affects there overall effectiveness more.

Shaman is def more gear dependent all around. The Necro by and large, shouldn't be taking any hits - so AC isn't a huge deal. Whereas a lot of the Shaman's solo will be slowing then taking the hits.

Also a necro with a 'stressed' mana pool won't stand out like a Shaman to the group. The necro can downrank dots and just be low on mana without as much direct impact to the group as the Shaman being low on mana.

In raids - the necro's fun on the bosses mostly. Trash just dies too fast for dots, although you can toss some nukes, if you can get them in before the mage and wiz nukes hit. But the problem for the necro is that on long boss fights - you are often called on to mana-twitch the healers.

That being said - a Necro with a soul stone and FD has saved more than one raid I've been on in years past. Being able to FD and then rez a Cleric is super powerful in some situations... well, many situations.

Necro solo is more efficient than the Shaman. Shaman have some dots that will out-DPS the Necro at certain level ranges. Of course, I know at like 63 my Shaman's main dot was also like 15% of her mana. The necro's lich line and overall efficiency just make them the top tier solo-er. Really the only one that comes close is the Enchanter+Charm. But the necro can go AFK without hassles, unlike maintaining a charmed pet. Both the Necro and Shaman have a reputation for taking out some very hard targets solo though. That comes down to which target and how you can pull it off.

They both have their dull moments on raids, but the Shaman is certainly a lot more 'active' with buffing/debuffing and such. The necro is a very 'chill' class, for the most part. Although, I did play a Necro on past 75ish on live and did crap like kite away adds on raids and other crazy stuff that helped the group/raid significantly. So gear.. really does matter for a necro especially when you want to maximize the class and kite crap that will be summoning you the whole time. But I would say the necro is the least gear dependent class in this game.

At one point, I was killing stuff in Noble's Causeway duoing my Necro/Wiz in OoW than the group next to me was.


I've been debating on a class for Yelinak myself. This almost makes me want to play a Necro/Shaman.. LOL

Seriously..? Either is great. That's my problem with this game. I love all the classes.

Can't do a Cleric. Its one dimensional complete focus on healing and only healing is way too boring. At least with a Shaman I have a variety of things I can do from healing, to DPSing, to Soloing when not raiding. With a Cleric, I would always be just a Healer and any thought of soloing is pretty much out the door.

Yeah honestly I am having a similar crisis and to make matters worse, my Ideal race/class combinations aren't available in the game yet and I am going to have to race change to Iksar for nearly all of them. If I had to be honest, I would probably main a BL if that was available in classic. BLs are one of the most engaging classes, I mean you got a bit of everything. Melee - Check, Casting - Check, Strong Pet - Check, Healing - Check. I think the only thing it can't do is gate.

But yeah, I kind of want to main a Necro, Shaman, Monk, Beastlord, Shadow Knight and maybe a Enchanter Again. However, I don't think the guild I am joining would be too keen on me changing my main character to use on raids every other day so I kind of need to focus on just one of them and can't wait to future expansions drop if I want to keep up with the guilds raiding plan.

It just depends on what your raid already has. Early on necro's are top tier dps, so more will always be better. I HATE raiding with a shaman, because your job is to cycle low duration buffs in between healing and slowing. You have the occasion where you dps, but you have no aggro dump and early on tanks don't have the ability to keep mobs off you. Necro's can charm in hate/fear and should always top parses in those zones, should compete on vox, and does better than some casters in sky because good resist checks and pets.

That being said, shamans are one of the most powerful classes in the game for a very very long time. It's a class that's pretty needed in the raiding scene, and trivializes group content before slow gets mitigated.

Honestly, both classes are probably the two most difficult classes to play in terms of apm. Either one will keep you busy on raids. I actually believe that necro is one of the toughest classes to dps correctly with in any mmo i've played.

Great info guys. I really appreciate your opinions.

Buy a second computer and play both.

Pick whats fun for you. Each expansion does have its own experience, early game (up to Gates expac) shamans, necros they're a dime a dozen. If you can handle single buffs for 90% of the game until you get group buffs/MGB shaman is ok but even they peter off. Necro's no different at a certain point, much sooner than you realize, all you do is twitch clerics.

I peaked at a few guilds for fun to see what they're looking for on Live servers, and they are all looking for the exact same thing with slightly different demands (high vs medium need) Bard, Berserker, Beastlord, Enchanter (wtf?) and Shaman.
On the forums Triton was looking for Beastlord, Berserker, Cleric, Ranger, Bard, Monk, Rogue. Machin Shin is basically looking for the same.

I think my point is STOP ASKING. PLAY what YOU want. Asking the community only goes so far and demands are always gonna vary, and if you listen to the community and end up playing a class you hate or just happens to be the most popular at the start like Necro and Shaman or Druid. You'll only have yourself to blame.

I agree. Shamans kind of slow down a fair bit after SoF I think? I remember slow being basically pita and I was just nothing more than glorified healer that occasionally trolled my friends with Torpor. lol.
As a shaman main for a lot of early game especially Velious, you do a lot of tanking in raids, floor tanking. Slow resist and WHAP. Good time.
Overall though I completely agree with this. They are strong but every class generally has its moment, even rangers did during I think GoD?

The thing is I think either class has its merits and would be fun in their own way so I am looking for something to end up being a tiebreaker. I have played a Necro up to 46 and a Shaman up to 66, but neither in a raid environment. Outside of raids I found the Necro fun, especially when soloing, but a tad bit dull in a XP PUG. The Shaman was kind of opposite, a lot more fun in a group especially because my role changed depending on if the group had a Cleric or not, but Solo wasn't that exciting and I honestly hated dealing with having to spam canni but that issue kind of goes away once you get access to Canni IV and the Canni AA abilites.

Since I am going to raid, but haven't raided with either class, I am hoping that can be the tiebreaker between the two. In an ideal world, I would run both of them as a main, alternating them on raids. but then I am requiring my guild to support two characters through th raiding cycle including keying and everything else. That isn't really fair and honestly I doubt it is tolerated.

I don't think a necro is nearly as dull as a shaman both classes have their moments in exp groups.
Malo, slow, ebolt, canni dance for hours straight isn't much better. The only downside to necro's I found is when I am grouped with a mage and my dots don't even tick. But that happens with shaman too since their primarily dotting.

I'd say pick whatever sounds more fun to you. I personally never have that much interest in the game when I'm trying to force myself to play as something for long term benefit, but that's probably because I find the leveling process far more interesting overall.

I have to be honest, the only reason I am not 100% behind playing a Shaman is that damn Canni. Whoever thought having to spam a spell dozens of time over and over just to maximize your mana regen should be put up against a wall and shot.

Later this stupid mechanic goes away and they put Canni on a 18 second recast which just combines 20 casts of previous canni into one cast. You just have to wait for the Omens of War expansion and level 68 to get there. Honestly it should have been fixed by Kurnak but we all know how that goes.

As for you downside on the Necro. Yeah I am running into that issue now. Level 10-13 in Befallen, I ended up feeling more effective using the Necro's ghetto heal to support our healer druid who honestly couldn't really handle the amount of healing we need and then Lifedrawing my health back, than trying to use any of my DoTs. MoBs were just falling too fast. It was a bit frustrating to be honest but on the other hand, I without a doubt, know that without my assistance healing, we would have wiped at least a dozen or more times during my session as the Druid was OMM many, many times when we had multiple mobs in the camp. I guess if the Necro didn't have that utility, we just wouldn't have been able to hold the camp so there is that.

But would it have went better if I had been on a Shaman? Probably. I could have provided back up heals, slowed and probably put out more DPS because a Shaman has a better DD at those levels and melees much better. This is why I wonder if the Necro is really the way too go, at least in all fashions except soloing and farming.

I've been ooming as a shaman healing too its not really unique to any hybrid.

Yeah I have came to the conclusion everything is greener on the other side of the fence.

I am pretty committed to the Necro now but I do not know if I am really pulling my weight in a group and my ghetto heal has fallen off in usefulness nearly completely. I mean I did manage to keep the Chanter topped off when she got hammered due to charm breaks so there is that at least.

Truth be told finding the right class for me has always been a challenge. All of them just fall shy of the mark in some way or another. Then again if I have to be honest, the fact all of them have some pretty big gaps in their toolset, is probably what makes EQ the best MMO I have ever played. If the classes were all the "total package", then we would just be playing WoW.

Its just some basic decision making. If stuffs dying to fast, DoTs are probably not the answer per-say. Ebolt lines or super short duration dots are probably the best. But even necro life in groups can be kinda "meh" pets and taps is life.
This is why a lot of people say, play the class not the meta and don't over think it. If you wanna be a Ogre Cleric, be an Ogre Cleric cause its fun obviously that's literally not possible but you get the idea. Luckily you found out early enough.
But a class can be a total package but even if it is - if it is not fun then there is no point.

Yeah your right. At the end of the day you are playing the game to have fun so you definitely want to play something fun.

I think what makes EQ so difficult is that the game play experience of any given class changes so dramatically throughout the leveling process that it is really hard to determine what will be fun. This is further made difficult by the fact that the leveling process is lengthy and the gear you manage to acquire or not acquire often has an extremely dramatic effect on how the class plays or even can make or break a class. A couple cases in point.

Shadowknight. Played one in original EQ and realized I hated it up until I reached about level 55. Also what gear you have access too has a dramatic effect on if the class is fun or not, at least that was how it was for me. Another case is the Enchanter. Absolutely loved the Enchanter but for me it reaches a point where the things that made it an exceptionally fun class, fade out in time. However, I have heard if I can tough it out for 6 months from that point and a few expansions, things get better but do I spend that 6 months continuing the class in hopes they are right?

I think it is from there where these debates on which classes to play stem from. I have never played past level 66 on any character. If I go further than that with whatever class I am playing now, will it still be the same fun class I played at level 20, 40, 60, etc? Will it even be more fun? Do I just have to push past the suck now to get the amazing later? When your talking about devoting months or even years to a class, it can definitely lead to some analysis paralysis hehe.