Lack of Progression of Mid Teir Guilds

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Mulleteer, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. MyShadower Augur

    This! This is the pearl of wisdom in this thread and all of the other threads like this that have been or will ever be. The game developers are not likely to affect this.
  2. Seldom Augur

    Bamboompow, you illustrated my point exactly with your example without realizing. You brought up Rathe server. One of the many servers plagued with poor leadership for many years. A large portion of it's talent jumped ship years ago. It's now down to one guild which has completed all content and that guild is a freshly made one. FYI: there's a GIGANTIC difference between treating people like the "brown word" as you claim and holding folks "accountable". Thanks for attempting to put words in my mouth though
  3. Bamboompow Augur

    No, its a splinter from a long existing one that basically was running 2 raid teams and working both Euro and EST in something of a monopoly for a while. The EST one left to do their own thing. Pretty sure both still have some alts in either or but the whole org just got too big and complex. Or the EST people eventually just outgrew the Euro counterparts. Maybe ask Powerful what the story is. I kinda don't GAFF.

    Look, this game is a business. If reliance upon creation of leadership in the player community is what you would propose as a business plan to take to a bank or the Russian mob to finance an expansion pack, well, they might laugh at you. If that is all you have, then there is a need to face facts.

    Everyone will have to. Mid Tier won't finish expansions. Period. If so then DBG needs to find a way to make this game compelling for everyone who wants to shell out their hard earned cash, regardless if they suck or are one of those elusive elite...or just let it go. Or mid tier players just have to accept they suck too much to finish the game and will have to live with the fact that they didn't get their full money's worth in that regard.

    Ultimately there is going to be a tipping point loooong before the top 5 guilds can't recruit anymore worthy players which well shut the game down as far as development of more content goes. Its a dollar number not dependent on who is the best raid leader in the game. Still, they might sacrifice the elite minority before running off the bulk of everyone else.
  4. Bamboompow Augur

    If it has to be like that at this point in the game, then there were two mistakes made. The first was that a player apped to a guild that they are not a good fit for, and the second was that guild accepted them to begin with.

    I get that there has to be due process....
  5. Seldom Augur

    Missing the point still Bamboo. You named a "splinter" guild that formed on that server and failed somewhat recently. I named a "splinter" guild on that server that formed recently and succeeded(#1 on that server now by huge margin). This was due to leadership as I explained earlier. If all was fine and dandy with the old guilds on that server that have been around forever and are doing terrible, there would have been no need for break off guilds. There's no such thing as "monopoly" guilds in this era on live servers. Guilds are like players, they and their leadership build a reputation game wide as the years go on. You claiming that people apped to guild and were accepted holds no relevance. People get married and divorced. People change every day. Life happens, schedules change etc. You should always strive for improvement of yourself and peers regardless of that. Don't and end up surrounded by the types who don't believe in such
  6. wingz-83 Augur

    You know what? You're right. No course correction needed. Everything is golden. Have fun.
  7. Bamboompow Augur

    Seldom, the two situations were unique. Probably no bearing since it happened on a server that the real game has apparently written off, so broad brush it all you want.

    One thing YOU might miss is that this is a game. Escapism. If it can be played like a recreational team sport where not everyone has to be a super star but everyone can still have fun, than great. Mid Tier raiding might be trying to achieve that, as long as people don't take it overly seriously.

    Accountability to metrics..that sounds a bit too much like what people try to escape from during the day to day. What has wrecked quite a few so called "Family Guilds that Raid" is that they tend win just enough to encourage the more serious players that everyone else can be pushed into "taking it to the next level" and that everyone else has to be held to their standards.

    Yup. Doesn't work.

    Ultimately that Rathe story really did end up with those few who wanted to be in a serious guild eventually getting there. What hurt is they wrecked at least 2 guilds along the way and caused a good number of people to quit the game in the process. Mid Tier has to be content with what they can achieve and those who want more need to just go seek it out the company of the like minded, and not force it on others.
  8. Aurastrider Augur

    I have heard people mention that other games utilize a cross server lfg feature to allow more grouping potential. I am not sure if this concept would even be possible or how it would work but I think with the overall dwindling population something like this might be helpful. I highly doubt something like this could be implemented this far along into the progression of the game without seriously breaking things or reconfiguring the entire structure of the game but if it is something that could be done reasonably I think it would solve a ton of grouping and raiding issues. Maybe have an "instanced" type server where people must be grouped with other players in order to say on the server and an in game tool of some form to allow people to do cross server lfg or raids. There would be no bazaar and you would not be able to make trades with other players as this would basically impact sales of character transfers for the purpose of moving toons to another server to sell crap. To that end you probably would not be able to drop items on the ground either. Just a crazy idea that might work if it is not to time intensive.
  9. Jhenna_BB Augur

    The tipping point for EQ is that the game is almost 2 decades old. No contributing factor out weighs that fact. The game isn't as pretty as modern MMOs - which by and large the MMO market has been dying for years - eating itself because of the time commitment associated into one game. Not to mention the monthly fees and digital transactions associated with MMOs.

    We can't even get new epics in EQ yet EQ2 just added them this content cycle. This game is far too limited and it's unfortunate. Lack of Dev resources and an old game engine that's running 1999 content with modern content peanut buttered on top - it must be a mess to develope and not break everything. There's some good suggestions throughout this thread and conditions with EQ make them fit only for the circular file under your desk.
  10. baider Elder

    Look, I am not arguing that mid tier guilds not beating content and sitting stagnant for half a year is NOT the leadership, bad players, bad strategies, etc.... fault. But guess what, theres a lot of good players who will have to suffer because of it and theres not enough room for those good players to just go join the top guild on their server and jump ship. Guess what else, there is not really much of a solution to fixing bad leadership or leadership that doesn't care much anymore that has been in power for a decade like in many mid tier guilds, so there is no solution there either. Guess what else, you arent going to be kicking out and screaming at players who don't play to the best of their abilities in mid tier guilds who make it tougher on the good players. Guess what else, just because your top tier guild CAN kill all of EoK raids with 4 raiding clerics doesnt mean lesser geared, lesser experienced, guilds who still spend the majority of their time raiding CAN beat those raids with 4 clerics and its not fair to say thats all it requires.

    And last of all, these are NOT issues DBG can fix, what DBG CAN fix to make the game much more enjoyable to a larger number of its player base is stop with the class nerfs, once again make more classes useful, and to the idiot who has to say "the solution isnt to make raids extremely easy" I didnt say make them extremely easy, i said maybe halfway into an expansion if they see this stuff happening FINE TUNE some small parts of the events to make them just that little bit more achievable for mid tier guilds, not make them so easy that 36 players can go and pug through them.

    This game is not about just the 54 players in top tier guilds who play well, and thats definitely not representative of the vast majority of the game. So although your opinions matter, saying change nothing and everyone else just needs to play better and find better leadership is 1) not a solution and 2) an obvious attempt to keep things what works best for you and not for the game to survive and thrive
  11. Seldom Augur

    What I find hilarious in this thread is the "know it all" mentality from some individuals in the family, low and mid tier guilds that so many good through elite tier players RUN from. Bamboo tells me a story about a guild that formed and broke without realizing I personally trained many of the players from that guild when they went to top ones(I'm in 3 of the top 10 guilds game wide). The reasons they failed were glaringly obvious as I spoke with them and witnessed capabilities across multiple servers that many of them broke off too. Nearly all of them all took the advice and improved. Folks on the family, low, mid tier end generally refuse to do this and make countless excuses. They then claim their vision is superior for game like they claim them being stuck in easy content and keeping bad leadership is A ok. Essentially, they refuse to fix the things that they themselves can fix and take full accountability. If you're in a raid guild that never could get all content down or struggled to do so, rather it was RoF, CoTF, TDS, TBM, or EoK...... If you had full raid with a bench and your guild was still struggling in any of those expansions...... Then you need to look in mirror or get a different game IMO. Most of the folks complaining are part of both those types of raid forces
  12. Bamboompow Augur

    Well, I hope this group of people are happy in what they do now, there, Master Yoda. It might have been less of a blow if they had just left and skipped the intermediate step that ushered quite a few people out of the game. Beats me if some might view that as a culling of the herd that had to be done. It strikes me as a selfish, bag of D's move. That's just my opinion and nothing more.

    If people want to be elite or not be elite....that is their choice. Does it really have to be " You win or you die", though?
  13. Cicelee Augur

    Yesterday I started to play Skyrim for the first time on my Xbox. After two hours I had not completed the game. When I did some research I realized it would take 200-300 hours to complete the entire game.

    This is unacceptable for me. I wrote a letter to Bethesda asking them to change Skyrim so that I can complete it with my level 2 paladin within a couple hours. I will let you all know the results when I hear back from them...
    Phrovo1 likes this.
  14. Bamboompow Augur

    Cicelee, with all due respect, do you have anything to contribute here other then reinforce the Get better or get out echo chamber? Honestly, some of you seem to advocate quitting now rather than later. This could perhaps be a discussion on how to keep the game going, not how to kill it faster.

    I could be wrong. Mid Tier dies than all you have left to cannibalize is yourselves.

    You all cool with that? *shrug* Maybe you are. Beats me. The dev team and you guys seem perfectly fine with how it is.
  15. Phrovo1 Augur

    wonder what part of "you get out what you put in" you don't understand?
  16. Bamboompow Augur

    I get it there, Dickey.

    Quite a few people need to think if this game still works for them, thats for sure. That the answer you want?

    Plus Skyrim is a poor example. That game doesn't require 54 people playing well to finish. That is all on the individual.
  17. baider Elder



    I don't know how many times I have to reiterate it that there are quite a lot of hardcore and phenomenal players who put in many hours and lots of focus in mid tier guilds. They are in them for lots of reasons such as loyalty to the guild they brought them up, large sums of banked DKP, friends they have played wiht forever, certain raid hours/days, certain raid attendance requirements for people with unusual hours, top tier guilds not having openings for their class, not having the money to transfer their toons to another server, etc etc etc....

    So there are actually quite a lot of people in mid tier guilds who strongly feel they are NOT getting out what they put in, and should they have to suffer because many events are strongly based on having pretty damn close to 54 people (unless you are all equipped in eok raid gear with top skilled players), and having the right amount of healers/tanks/dps when the game is having trouble keeping players and guilds are all struggling to keep numbers? I just don't understand why there is no compromise acceptable to the top level players. I have already suggested waiting halfway into an expansion, that gives those top level players 6 months of walking around showing off their end game raid gear, and by that point most of their alts are already in a fair amount of raid gear, so why is it so offensive to you if DBG makes some fine tuning of events or reverse nerfs to classes to make these events more achievable to those guilds facing low numbers or low amounts of key classes in a struggling game?
  18. Seldom Augur

    I prefer you have fun or don't. It's a game as you said. The folks who are complaining about being stuck on the same 3-4 raids clearly aren't having fun from your own assertions Bamboo? Have zero to lose at attempting something different. If you're on a server that has one guild with all content down and three that are stuck on first four.... Different approach can't hurt eh =p. Maybe Devs will agree with you and nerf some raids down. Maybe they won't. I'd take it into my own hands where I could though. Especially if this type of thing was going on for MULTIPLE expansions on my server........ A thrown together pickup raid of alts generally can handle the first 2-3 EoK raids. I'm all for the nerfing of raids at critical points in an expansions life span as I've stated. You're not even at what most consider the somewhat typical road blocks of the raids though
  19. Phrovo1 Augur

    they can have fun raiding older content if they like, nothing's stopping them from going back to Cotf/TDS/TBM. unless they want the gear? in which case they have to earn it
  20. baider Elder

    once again, how are the 40 players who do show up and bust their and were max auged/aa'd/all quests done etc... at the beginning of the expansion, not earning it? I expressed to you the reasons those players still stay in mid tier guilds and it is very very very common. They show up and play just as many hours and focus and study strats just as much as those people in top tier guilds, the only difference is the vetting process of top tier guilds weeded out the players who couldnt perform top of their class and the leadership has a strong interest in succeeding and still loves playing the game and competing. Those are factors DBG can not change in mid tier guilds, nor can the players who aren't in those categories.

    So your solution then to retain players in the game and not have mid tier guilds continue to lose players by the week is to what? just live with it ? I understand you may be in a guild who has been clearing EoK fully for months, and this may have made you miss what is going on in these guilds but it is definitely worse than other expansions. I clearly and distinctly remember many more guilds farming TBM, TDS, CotF, and RoF in era than EoK fully. On top of that EoK offers very few raids(TDS did as well to be fair)

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