Econ 101 ..let the market determine price. Having a limit on it doesn't really discourage anything. if prices get to out of hand ..people will just buy their own in the case of a krono or subscription or actually go out and farm their own stuff in case of other items. Plat is play money a krono comes from real money as far as I'm concerned if I sell one ..whatever I get is what its worth. because lets face it its play money ! I personally would like to see these professional bazaar folks that drive up the (play money) put out of business but it is in the nature of things and price caps never work out they just create black markets. If you really wanted to get a grip on inflation in the game get rid of the barter half of the bazaar then guys would have to actually go out and get items instead of being fed them for a fraction of the sell price. Trade skill items are the biggest inflation maker in the game. Now if I'm actually using kronos to play ...(which I have) my view is a little more skewed to the other extreme, buy my stuff for lots of plat and sell me that krono cheap cheap cheap.
If you raid on firiona vie a couple times a month you play for free just transfer servers if you tired of paying for krono~ Heck i wouldnt care if kronos were going for 10 mill each on our server
I don't get it, how would it be pay to win, if you are using plat to buy it? I thought pay to win, meant using real money to get an advantage, using ingame currency your character earned within the game-world is not pay to win. Even in classic you could buy expensive bronze armor for plat and get a decent armor-class, I don't see the difference As long as the price for such items was balanced towards what a character could afford through normal gameplay, it would be a nice plat-sink imo. Balancing the price towards the billionaires would be a bad move though, but i guess thats not what people are suggesting. Btw, maybe the lack of kronos in baz is simply because people are using them for their mains while grinding out the eok-aas?
A lot of the krono have disappeared too (driving the prices up) from the latest exploit on Phinny server, multiple accounts have been banned because of it and some of those accounts had hundreds, if not thousands of krono on them. (At least that is what I am suspecting that drove the price up so high so fast)
I think the TLP servers and Quarm in particular have really helped a lot of players see how easy it is to transfer servers and how the value of kronos is established. A players' gameplay progresses the longer you play EQ. Maybe you start out as F2P and you play old content by yourself. You don't worry too much about high level players because they are so far above you. Then around 60, you start to feel the imposed F2P limits, so you go All Access. Then you might consider a krono or a Heroic toon to help you get gear. As you level up and learn more about the game, you might start boxing, probably because you can't find a group or because you are looking for a bigger challenge. Then, when you reach the 100-105 range, the gear and tactics of those seemingly god-like high-level players starts to seem attainable to you. And it is, if you raid! So maybe you join a raid guild and start getting the gear. And just like in real life, you start accumulating far more stuff than you can use. And then you're able to beat the newest expansion in a week. And out of boredom, you start more boxes and try to find something deeper in the game, like buying and selling kronos, or starting a fan-site. And you start looking at other servers to see what they are all about. And you discover that there is a meta-game above any individual server, that revolves around cross-server play (and trade). I think that if you are worried about the price of something in the game, you may just not be ready for the next "level" of EQ yet (not character level, but gameplay level). Just because you hit 105 or have played for 17 years doesn't mean that you are ready. Complaining about the price of a krono is a sure sign that you aren't ready.
Fair price is easily determined when you play enough. People see the prices advertised in General. Just like they could see bazaar prices. Not sure what the problem is. And yes the bazaar limit keeps prices lower. Most selling in General don't want to wait around for hours constantly advertising krono especially if they are selling them on a regular basis. On Xegony there were effectively zero krono for sale in the bazaar even before the limit. One guy simply bought them all as they were put up for sale for a couple months straight. So having krono in the bazaar does not guarantee them being on the market. If you can't sell your krono at 3 million I guess you will have to lower your price at some point. Which would seem to suggest that the bazaar limit is helping keep prices lower. If you are selling your krono at 3 million with no problem then why do you need the bazaar price limit increased? New players overall are not more likely to buy krono in my opinion. Some will. Not most. New players are more likely to initially rely on the money they had when they left so higher prices are not good for them. Returning peeps are generally trying out the game once again to see IF they will start playing again. Being able to play by using krono may be the way they go all access at least as they try out EQ all over. No... high prices are not to the benefit of most returning players.
Real world analogies don't always work in games. You don't get black markets due to price caps. Selling in General is not comparable to a black market. The reason a bazaar price cap does help keep prices down is that people actually have to sit at their keyboard trying to sell items for over 2 million plat. They are more likely to accept a lower price to get the sale done quickly they they would be if they can just set a price in the bazaar and leave it to sell itself 24/7. This is especially true of those who are playing the buy and sell game and don't want to have to sit their trying to sell their over 2 mil priced items in General.
And here I was going to say that complaining about being able to sell you krono in General may be a sign you are not ready for the next stage of EQ. Right now the next level of EQ is dealing with selling your items for over 2 mill plat and you seem to be signifying that without changes to the game you aren't able to handle it. See my reasons are a bit more altruistic then yours. I have no problems getting krono in the game after 17 years of playing. That is because from time to time I played the buy and sell game and farmed goods. BUT just because I don't have a problem doesn't mean others may have problems. I am less interested in changing things to benefit me then keeping the game healthy overall. And to be honest if you are just selling the occasional krono in General its no big deal. If you are doing it all the time then you really don't need to worry about plat so you really don't need a price limit increase in the bazaar. If you can't learn to deal with it then it probably means you aren't able to handle it.
The biggest reason for inflation is the rampant use of "unmentioned 3rd party" software with teams running 24/7. Non cheating players cant even hope to come close to gaining that kind of plat, and the use of that software is only growing. Until DBG does something to actually get rid of these people, the problem is just going to get worse and worse.
Servers are down and some of us just want some good morning chat - I'm enjoying today's forum romp, and I hope you are too But please don't assume that I am having any trouble buying or selling kronos. I don't have any problems buying kronos because I buy them from DBG whenever I want one. I am selling them on BB for 3 million because I walked away from Quarm with kronos that I wouldn't have bought otherwise (there really is no incentive for a high-level toon to buy kronos on a live server). And as for altruism, my primary investment in this entire topic is to protect the players who are buying and selling kronos. Because without the /baz to keep things in check, players are constantly trying to buy kronos for far less than their value (ie take advantage of noobs). And even honest players don't have the resources (aka the /baz) to know the "fair" price unless they monitor /general chat logs for weeks. So the /baz limitation is an issue, in my book.
I think it's funny that so many people in this thread have different ideas of what the problem is. I, for instance, do not see a problem with high prices. I do see a problem with the /baz limit and I could see arguments for their being a supply problem (not enough kronos, period). But the "big box" players are probably a self-correcting scenario: Those "big box" players will eat up the supply of kronos that they use to pay for their accounts (maybe they already have). And then they won't play their "big box" groups, because who would give that much real money to DBG every month? Either way, DBG doesn't want them to go away, because the "big boxers" probably represent a huge number of DBG's active accounts (which DBG probably needs for their invesors/bosses). I'm not a "big box" player, but I want to clarify that nothing is "cheating" just because you said so. It's only cheating if somebody from DBG says so. And they have been silent. If you are at your keyboard, they don't care. Try to ask a GM, if you need clarification.
I totally see where you are coming from and I hate cheaters too. The unfortunately reality is - and this is ALL MMO's right now - the games cannot afford to lose paying customers. The people doing this illegal boxing possess up to 6 paid monthly accounts. What I'm saying is nothing news worthy. It has been said here many, many times on these boards. EQ is not the only game with a dwindling player base. The MMO genre as a whole is less and less appealing to gamers. It's too much time commitment, even for someone casually playing. The money invested in most MMO's is more than what most gamers will pay in total for all other single player games throughout the year. As not to start rambling, I'll just come out and say deal with it We all just have too if we don't wish the game to be sunset, for better or for worse, fair or unfair.
just FYI, if DBG pulls the plug on this software... you may as well walk over there and pull the plug on the servers too. Seriously, this game, is that software. It may not be more than 50% of the player base but if you gut even 40% of the playerbase you will have guilds collapsing in very short order and really raid guilds are the heart of this game. its not a gamble you or the company is willing to take.
So if you are having no problem selling krono for 3 mil what is the problem? You are saying you eaisly sell them for 3 mil but the bazaar limit needs to go up to facilitate selling? What am I missing here?
There is definitely some truth to this. I think some people, especially if they do it non stop from day one of EQ can make some incredible sums of plat but third party software has probably contributed to a lot of plat fortunes also. I think if you really concentrate on it you can make a lot of plat without third party software help but 24/7 camping and churning of stuff makes the issue much worse. Let's face it people don't run that stuff primarily to level up and get aa.
I think the problem is that you are making assumptions about things that I haven't said. I said I was offering kronos at 3 mil, I did not say that I have sold any (and I haven't). I don't really care if mine sell (as I said, I don't need plat and if I use them myself, I would save $45...real money). I offer them at 3 million any time that I see somebody saying "wtb krono" in /general. And I offer them at 3 million any time that I see somebody saying "wtb krono 2 million", because I think that's below the market value. I am, as I indicated in the rest of the post you quoted, doing this out of altruism more than anything else: to help establish an upper-bound for the value of kronos that all the players on the server can see. Which is something the /baz can no longer do.
Ghubuk said: ↑ “The biggest reason for inflation is the rampant use of "unmentioned 3rd party" software with teams running 24/7. Non cheating players cant even hope to come close to gaining that kind of plat, and the use of that software is only growing. Until DBG does something to actually get rid of these people, the problem is just going to get worse and worse.” Don't need boxer software for any of that ..I can run multi-toons with or without ..but a few extra monitors does help I wonder if you would have them banned too. Personally I pay for 6 accounts every month usually with a years subscription. boxer software is convenient not necessary. But if you got rid of my being able to multitask characters say like only allow one instance on a computer then I would almost guarantee you would loose at least 6 accounts.
with or without any software.. any plat in game that is looted from a corpse and sold to a vendor is +plat in game. reason there is to much plat in game is because not enough things worth buying on a vendor (-plat in game) to counter the plat coming in. that is the only option to remove plat. Vendors/Corpses bring it in and only Vendors take it out. Simple fix. add more things worth buying on vendors. Nothing will be pay to win. only thing that would be pay to win is if you could have a god mode click. FYI everyone pays to win every month by buying krono or subing. So you pay for a sub you get you get 30k+ raw HEM excluding augs. use of Rk3 spells. and that nice little J5 merc. What can i buy on a vendor that is better than that? is it ok to spend 2.5Mpp on a krono but not 2.5Mpp on expendable vender stuff that will add far less to me? buying in selling in /baz and barter does nothing but shift plat around.
I am not talking about people boxing legitimately. I do that myself. It is those that use "unmentioned 3rd party" software to automatically play their toons.
Well you said you were selling them at 3 million and you have corrected that to be offering them at 3 million. Just because you feel you should be able to sell for 3 million doesn't mean the market agrees. And since I assume someone must be in barter offering 2 million for krono I would probably consider that the minimum for krono prices in general. Either you are or are not selling your krono at 3 million. You will have to tell us that. If you aren't try lowering your prices they sell on Xegony but not at 3 million. So are you selling your krono for 3 million or not? And if not why do you think 3 million is a fair price and not 2.5 million? Or 2.2 million? I suspect fair price is going to be one that you can actually sell them at. I would disagree with you if you are trying to tell me that most people buying krono from daybreak are just sitting on them because they can't get 3 million pp for them. Most that are buying directly from daybreak are going to sell them at the price they can get for them which I suspect is going to be closer to 2 million then 3 million. Now people buying and selling krono in game either for RMTs or just in game are more likely to hold on to krono because they don't need the plat. They are just playing the buy and sell game or trying to make real world cash out of it. They can afford to sit on large amounts of krono if they want to. Higher bazaar limits benefits mutliple groups of people including RMT folk, botters Buy and Sell folks. I think keeping the bazaar limit where it is benefits a larger number of average players. The higher the buy in is in a poker game the fewer players will be willing to play. Great for the high rollers but not so great for the small time players. Krono prices need to be balanced between getting pp for those selling them and prices being reasonable enough to encourage as many to use them to play as possible. That, in my opinion, makes for the healthiest game.
