Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by MasterMagnus, Aug 14, 2021.
The ongoing debate about which cheat program is or isn't ok never gets old, even after the 57th individual thread and hundreds of pages of gibberish :^)
Unattended game play is not allowed no matter what means are used to achieve it. That's all. No specific tool gets carte blanche.
This is the key take away when this question is asked. There are too many shades of grey for them to answer definitively. Also, even a white listed program can be updated to add capabilities that are out of the scope from when they were allowed. Being at the keyboard when actions occur is the main thing, but anything that allows you to perform an action that your class can't do, fully automates, or is outside of normal gameplay like warping can get you some time off. Just use some common sense.
All "CHEAT programs are by definition bannable"
Programs like GINA, parsers, tradeskill loggers, item collectors, anything that simply reads a log file are NOT 'cheat programs'.
i-s-b has been stated by devs as acceptable since it does nothing that someone sitting at the keyboard cannot do.
m-q and it's 101 variations IS a cheat program since it directly manipulates the data between the client and the servers.
p.s. just for the idiots, sharing in game maps is NOT CHEATING!
As I said very clearly, I don't have the tech skills to program, well, anything - not even a forage key, even if I wanted to
Check my posts - I have been vehemently anti all kinds of cheaters consistently since the previous boards.
I have reported numerous blatant cheats
I am not looking to 'get away with' anything
To accuse someone you don't know because they argued for a clear and transparent regulatory framework is just bonkers.
Usually people who want a law against x or y are not campaigning because they desperately want to do x or y - in fact, the exact opposite
Your summation brings us back to the point I was actually making - players need to know exactly what is or is not cheating. Some people (including myself) are very very diligent about never, ever, breaking regulations. It's very stressful to not know very clearly what the regulation is.
Suggest you read up on some basic psychology, eg confirmation bias, about why you find it necessary to assume the absolute worst in others
Imho, DPG should have introduced a /loop command to hotkey macros long ago.
Then fishing macro would look like:
/pause 300, /doability fishing
/pause 2, /autoinventory
/pause 2, /autoinventory
/pause 2, /autoinventory
and casting distilled mana vials would look like
/pause 110, /cast Mass_Distill_Mana_Gem_number
/pause 2, /autoinventory
/say Phew! I am done with mana making!
and so on for foraging etc.
Problem with autorepeating would go away, meanwhile this command would not be instrumental for automated gameplay.
Some of you people are so dense. There's no rule against using auto-repeat functionality.
Just go read the rules. This isn't complicated. You're not allowed unattended gameplay. Unattended gameplay means that you are not actively at your computer playing the game. Then there are separate rules about using software that modifies the game client, there's a rule against against deciphering the network traffic, and other rules about taking advantage of exploits. They couldn't be any more clear and these aren't the sorts of things that coders or designers would or should comment on. Go to customer service or something and don't waste time here.
So you are saying DPG doesn't have the resources to write up a list of allowed/disallowed third party tools? I think you're a bit off the mark. They don't do it because they don't want to be pinned down. Simple as that.
Better question is why is the game designed in a way such that players are inspired to come up with ways to avoid playing it.
Fishing and Forage come to mind.
Yes, which is the right way to do it. They even said that was the reason. No secret, and no shame in it.
I don't think "players being inspired to come up with ways to avoid playing it" has as much to do with the game design as it does with "people will try to beat whatever system they find themselves constrained to." That's just human behavior, it's why the wheel got invented, and fire got discovered. Humans gonna human.
No one has ever got banned for fishing or foraging afk afaik.
Nor for afk spellcasting in pok for skillups.
Nor for afk parsing training dummies.
Nor for afk soaking up buffs in the lagpile.
People do get banned for afk killing of mobs for xp or loot.
Where does it end .. Now its banned for afk killing tomorrow afk sitting in lag pile in GL : stop the madness
Sitting there and doing hundreds of tradeskill combines one at a time was tedious and completely un-fun. Daybreak (maybe SOE at that point) understood this and did something about it.
Now, they need to do the same on the other tedious and un-fun things in EQ. I'd rather they spend time working on removing the crap aspects of the game than worrying about things like points on Hunter achievements.
People have certainly been suspended for AFK foraging as long ago as 2000, my first guild had two people in the space of a week lose their halfling Druid forage characters for seven days for leaving them overnight in Misty Thicket. A well-known player on FV recently complained at great length that his almost brand new account had been suspended after one or two days. What he was doing I cannot say and it is absolutely true that you have to do some heinous stuff to earn a full on ban but suspensions do happen for things that people say are "allowed" on these forums.
You can potentially get suspended for anything done AFK that requires player input, that's the part that is the problem. You could use a key repeater to forage while you sit at the PC and that's fine. As soon as a GM contacts you by tell or say, you better stop the repeater and respond. Some people have mentioned that they got suspended in these situations because they missed the GM's message, which honestly, how would the GM know the difference? So that makes sense.
Starting a bard song and walking away isn't the same thing. Turning on attack on a dummy and walking away isn't the same thing either. AFK soaking up buffs is fine also. As soon as it moves from "no interaction required" to "interaction required" you enter the danger zone if you are AFK.
Most folks just want to fish, forage or skillup casting without being banned or drooling all over themselves with boredom. The folks running fully automated bots don't care what the rules are.
The solution for the first group is things like autoskill and autocombine. CS is for the latter.
Regarding skillup casting, a fix could be as simple as fizzles granting a chance for a skill-up.
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
I heard 2nd hand from someone who did get suspended for AFK foraging this year. It was with in the first couple weeks , maybe months of the expansion coming out and someone was trying to corner the market on the stat food and drinks.
It was back when we had all the threads about the 'weaponization' of reporting people as AFK bots if they happen to be in a camp you wanted, so the story goes the guy trying to corner the market was reporting anyone who zoned into the one zone you need to forage from for some orange fuzzy thing ( forget the name and too lazy to look up what the actual item is )
Separate names with a comma.