Just delete Weapon Stances already

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Millianna, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Millianna Augur

    People are missing my point. With a real group, EoK mobs last between 15 seconds to at most 60 seconds on trash mobs. Unless there are multiple mobs in camp, then it's irrelevant in what stance is being used. I personally can get away with 2. I don't see the problem with people using 2hs in this scenario and I am not sure why it makes others mad - it's not like I am molo the content using only 2hs.
  2. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    What i meant to say with that was:
    Whether you tank group stuff in group gear or (a little more/faster) group stuff in raid gear, it's all relative.
    We probably gain nothing with that "soft-AC-cap change" as WE (warriors) already have the 25.9% scaling they "announced".
    (Perhaps someone posts the relevant parts of the file from test to support or disprove that assumption)
    But we sure loose tankability from the stances and especially the block.

    In raids, additional AC has a much lower benefit than mitigating damage from successful hits.
    This is simply because, when you look at parses, our AC already moves the "DI distribution" very far to the left.
    But the lower blocks gonna hurt - those still trying to progress far more than any of us.
    Because especially and particularly against raid mobs, block+parry has a far greater effect than a few AC more.

    I see these changes as yet another nerf to especially make progressing for the mid- and lower tier guilds that much harder.
    And as was said elsewhere:
    Chances are we will be sold the defensive/mitigation we already HAD back to us with the next expansion.
    Yay! Marketing at it's best!
    Ogre Warlord likes this.
  3. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    This point much depends on how many you pull/tank at a time.
    AND in which gear.
    AND how the group kills (AE or singles).

    In the end, i expect both the raiding and the grouping warrior to noticeably loose in their tankability.
  4. Millianna Augur

    Currently, the rumor is that the nerf is roughly 13% increase in damage taken. I still don't see this going be an issue with a real group. Granted, I am not considering, I'm not considering AoEing large qualities of mobs (not what call standard). Tanking 2 to 3 mobs in 2hs stance is still doable. Where this going to hurt is with molo and probably with the new expansion until non raiders get new gear.
  5. Fintank Augur



    Just saying I tanked the Prince raid the whole time with 2hander last week, well to be fair I did use flash at the engage with Sword&Board.

    Here's my corresponding tank parse for just the Prince and no adds:
    /GU Tanking summary for: Fintank --- Total Melee --- Damage: 17703526 --- Avg hit: 24152 --- Attempts: 999 --- Riposted: 1/999 [0.1%] --- Parried: 11/998 [1.1%] --- Defended: 12/999 [1.2%] --- Missed: 226/987 [22.9%] --- Hits: 761/987 [77.1%] --- Absorbed: 28/761 [3.68%] --- Real Hits: 733/761 [96.32%]
    Break Down of the summary:
    /GU Tanking summary for: Fintank --- Slash --- Damage: 9605776 --- Avg hit: 23955 --- Attempts: 562 --- Parried: 5/562 [0.89%] --- Defended: 5/562 [0.89%] --- Missed: 130/557 [23.34%] --- Hits: 427/557 [76.66%] --- Absorbed: 26/427 [6.09%] --- Real Hits: 401/427 [93.91%]
    /GU Tanking summary for: Fintank --- Bash --- Damage: 7819538 --- Avg hit: 25471 --- Attempts: 406 --- Riposted: 1/406 [0.25%] --- Parried: 6/405 [1.48%] --- Defended: 7/406 [1.72%] --- Missed: 90/399 [22.56%] --- Hits: 309/399 [77.44%] --- Absorbed: 2/309 [0.65%] --- Real Hits: 307/309 [99.35%]
    /GU Tanking summary for: Fintank --- Kick --- Damage: 278212 --- Avg hit: 11128 --- Attempts: 31 --- Missed: 6/31 [19.35%] --- Hits: 25/31 [80.65%] --- Real Hits: 25/25 [100%]

    Are there some raids where tanking with 2Hander won't last very long? Sure. Saying it can't be done or is too big of a drain on healers isn't exactly a correct statement though. If you know your discs well and their respective timers then you can most certainly 2hander tank a few of the EOK bosses with relative ease. I personally have fully 2hander tanked Gorenaire and Prince. Droga and Garsillor are also 100% doable without destroying your healer's mana or fingers. So HALF of the raids are completely Warrior DPS mode tankable. ALL adds are DPS mode tankable. In the raids where there isn't much spell damage affecting the main tank it's pretty safe to say you can tank it with a 2hander.
    Janakin likes this.
  6. Millianna Augur

    I don't think he was trying to say yo cannot use DPS and tank raid mobs. His point was there isn't going be an overall difference between the stances and in some cases and your making the healers job more a pain.
  7. Brohg Augur

    Using Prince raid as an example is weird :p With the hp locks, there's so very little motivation to trade tank risk for higher damage
  8. Fintank Augur

    The main thing was that it is completely possible, but also parse padding is the only motivation I need, Brohg!
    Janakin, kizant and Brohg like this.
  9. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    The fire/ice adds in korsha 1 raid are about the only thing that you are going to splat quick with 2h out now. Particularly if just starting and you and your healers have the debuff.
  10. Zunnoab Augur

    Classes need more versatility not less.
  11. Time Burn Augur

    If your highly successful competitor lets everyone tank like a hero...
  12. Time Burn Augur

    So they aren't distinct? Lets all slow, mez, fade, tank, dps. I get it - ez mode!
  13. Phrovo1 Augur

    as it is now, any non-tank class that ganks aggro from anything only has a couple seconds (if they didn't die on the first round) to react. but yeah let's let anyone whose job isn't to tank essentially have armor made out of paper
  14. Gnomereaper Augur

    The problem with EOK rares as a game balance discussion really is this in terms of platinum for most people because of the market contributions to the game:


    [IMG]

    In terms of the actual design status, the mitigation changes are fairly good if the AC has not scaled to the predictable way. Raid gear has always trivialized group content, in part that's what I liked about EOK was closing the loop some what. It's just the way game is played for decades.

    Augments, quests, and ect. are what's necessary to keep people interested in playing. The Artisan Augment, while a complete abomination to complete, does give people "something to do" and is a good expression of the point between fun yet challenging with scale.

    Having:

    1. Tradeskills
    2. Economics and rare loot drops
    3. Raids
    4. Questing

    For obtaining the "best gear possible" is a mix and match game for various play styles to reach an end game of sorts. The problem with the group game is that a high play time person could cap out on gear easily within a few months, the achievement system and so on has expanded this a bit.

    I would probably argue that the issue isn't so much the raid drops, presuming EOK distributions continue into the future, but rather different "paths" to a "an end game."

    To summarize my point, group content having "rare tradeskill drops" with difficult to make content similar to EOK rares that make tradeskills more useful is an option not being explored to create a more free flowing market capacity and relevancy for tradeskills. I wouldn't say nerf "future expansion rares," but having some tradeskilled items and quests that knock it out of the park would increase the economy and relevancy of tradeskills.
  15. HULKMAN Lorekeeper

    Understand one thing
    When you are using a two handed weapon. You take maximum damage hits from mobs every time. SO be careful when using it
  16. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    Well, now that they've turned me into a Berserker mitigation-wise when i use 2h, i want their offensives too!
    Ogre Warlord likes this.
  17. Phrovo1 Augur

    that's a fine idea, maybe they should make every class tank like warriors too!
  18. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    They're working on that already in case you haven't noticed...
  19. Ogre Warlord New Member

    As a raid warrior with all the weapons and 2hs, I really do not see the point with using a 2h at all anymore. The damage output of DW vs 2h was quite small before the nerf, and now it should be somewhat closer due to the added proc mod to 1h. .

    Now answer me why a raid warrior when in dps mode would risk dpsing with 2h for about the same dps as DW when he might go splat (and not be rdy for tanking)?

    Why would he use 2h in group setting when moloing for the same dmg as dw with a greater chance to die?

    I can not see any reason for using 2h over dw in either setting for otger than novelty.

    I can not remember seeing that warriors (the master of all weapons), were supposed to be a crap tank with 2h weapons compared to 1hs. Even without the nerf to 2h stance i moslty (and other wars i know), chose to use DW either setting as it was still better.

    So if the plan is to keep 2h stance viable with the current nerf, then increase the dmg done with 2h back up(probably higher than what it was before the nerf it got some months ago). Not worth the risk vs reward over the other stances it has today.
  20. Israfel Elder


    As a raid warrior, you may barely even notice the nerf. Two hand tanking didn't seem to turn my tank into paper last night.

    You are, however, correct. Tanking with DW seems to be quite strong IF you have the Invested Honed Wurmslayer. Without it, it is unlikely to be as much DPS as a proper 2Hander.

    I would, however, agree that the new changes to 2-hand stance might be reason to re-increase the 2-hander damage (from stance or otherwise).