Jeweled Skull of Null stats question

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Cicelee, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. Sindaiann Augur

    I understand that's how it works but it's a terrible way for the scaling to occur.

    If you meet the group requirements that should keep it at 100% group stats and when you work on the raid portions it should scale the remaining stat differences across the raids equally, not drop the stats to sub group numbers when you work on the raid portions.

    Awful scaling design
    Nnewg Kahnzerson likes this.
  2. Nnewg Kahnzerson Journeyman

    I understand thats how it works now. My frustration and I guess my point really is what Ghubuk and Sindaiann is saying. You have 0-100% potential on a group item. And 0 - 100% potential on a raid item.

    IMHO they should be treated as two separate calculations and added together (since they are two separate task on two different items earned at separate times) but they arent.

    I am guessing is that its hard to program having to have 2 different if/then statement on the same item.

    Skull of Null Stats = Base minimum value of skull of null + incremental % to Max Skull of Null Stats based upon % of Hunter completed in VP

    Jeweled Skull of Null Stats = Base minimum value of Skull of Null + incremental % to max of Jeweled Skull of Null of all hunter task AND named raid dragons task

    What it SHOULD be is:

    Jeweled Skull of Null Stats = (Base Minimum Value of Skull of Null + incremental % to max group stats based upon hunter completed in VP) + (% value of *AC 140 HP 1800 Mana 1800 derived from % of Raid Dragons (4 total) being killed)

    * being the spectrum between max group and max raid and taking a % of this based upon % of Raid Dragons killed - 0/25/50/75/100 4 dragons and is estimated #s for conversational purposes

    Meaning, if you have a Maxed Skull of Null and Hunters in VP done, but have not raided VP yet, then when you drop your diamond in... nothing changes... but as you kill each named dragon in the raid, it goes up in 25% incremental steps to Max Jeweled Skull of Null Value

    Instead when you drop that diamond in, it goes BACKWARDS with a big go #$#$ yourself. And the only thing people have to say about it in /general or here on the boards is
    Which... is sad.
  3. Tucoh Augur

    I agree that the jeweled should always be superior to the base, but let's face it boys, Ngreth probably had less time in his budget to make the charm scaling effect than you spent writing this post. Folks have got to treat charms very carefully because they're goofy effects by design and you really can't trust that they work intuitively.
    Bigstomp and Nnewg Kahnzerson like this.
  4. svann Augur

    I think there really is a math error here.
    9 kills for group (vp hunter), 13 kills for raid (hoshkar, silverwing, xygoz, talendor plus the group kills). So with group kills complete you are 69% kill complete. The ac of the completed group version is also 69% of the completed raid charm - so mathematically coherent so far. But then you would think that with 69% of your kills done the raid charm would be exactly equal to the group charm. But its not. Its quite a bit less than that.
  5. feeltheburn Augur

    as Tucoh stated, I have always treated charms with kid gloves and always waited till I had WHATEVER done for it before touch it adding it wearing it etc. if was a raid loot charm was usually always last item I got.
  6. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    The "explanation" is. I was rushed and didn't think of the math.
    Instead, I just thought. hrm... make each raid 15%, so... the raid version starts at 55%
    I perhaps should have thought more carefully.
    Hopefully, with the patch (The change was late so I can't guarantee it makes it)... the new base is 73% with 9% per raid.
    It may be a minuscule downgrade now. Some stats will be better, some stats will be worse.
    Brohg, svann and Tucoh like this.
  7. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    Group skull of null:
    Base 30%
    the 4 "easy" rares are worth 5%
    the 5 "hard" rares are worth 10%
    so 30+5*4+5*10=100
    For the raid. It takes the group total and (after the patch) multiplies it by 73 divides by 100 to get 73 if all killed, some other number if not all killed.
    Each raid is 9%
    So 73+9*3 = 100
    Brohg, svann, Warpeace and 3 others like this.
  8. Nnewg Kahnzerson Journeyman

    Thank you for commenting Ngreth, we appreciate any and all efforts.
  9. svann Augur

    Ok. If I understand you correctly, if you have the raid charm with all group kills and no raid kills it should be 73% of max raid stats - and then gaining 9% per tier 3 event completed to total 100% of max raid stats. So it should be 73% of 350ac is 255ac. Is that right? IDK, I thought I remembered it being lower than the ac of the group version not 14 higher.
  10. Nnewg Kahnzerson Journeyman

    Every stat on a Jeweled Skull of Null with VP Hunters done is across the board worse than a Skull of Null with VP Hunters done as of today. The important thing is the Developer has acknowledged this as a mistake, and has a plan in which to address it.

    My VP Hunter Completed Skull of Null was:

    AC 251 HP 5120 Mana 5115

    My VP Hunter Completed Jeweled Skull of Null is:

    AC 218 HP 3862 Mana 3892
  11. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    Perhaps I should have said after next patch? I.E. I made the change after the 3/6 patch, so the update to the modifier is not available on any server but the internal server at this time.
  12. segap Augur

    Or perhaps people should just use common sense.

    Thanks for putting forth the effort to respond to our concerns and actually communicate with the community.
  13. Nnewg Kahnzerson Journeyman

    I hear you, but I still dont understand why a 5000 HP 5000 Mana Item Looses HP and Mana and AC and all stats when you Upgrade it with a raid diamond. We have to take 2 steps back for the potential for going forward.

    I think if anything, you add the Raid Diamond, it should actually increase slightly, and continue to increase incrementally until maxed as each raid dragon is accomplished.

    But to go backwards????
  14. Sancus Augur

    Your reading comprehension seems lacking. It won't lose stats* once it's fixed. It's been changed internally. Not sure what more you want.

    *Some stats will be lower and some will be higher, because Ngreth can only set stats as an across the board percentage of maximum (in this case, 73%). There is no way given current code to set the exact stats of the group Skull of Null as a baseline, so he's approximating it the best he can. Changing that is up to the coders, not Ngreth, and it likely isn't worth the time to completely revamp how charm stats are calculated for this specific a use case.
  15. Nnewg Kahnzerson Journeyman

    Then yes, it is my comprehension. The way I read it, is when I have a maxed Skull of Null and put a raid diamond in it, it is going to get its stats as a skull of null multiplied by 73 then divided by 100 and the result will be the new Jeweled skull of null baseline which then will increase incrementally as raid dragons are completed.

    Ipso facto, it means putting in a raid diamond moves the stats backwards.

    So yes, if this is NOT how it is going to work, and the fix that will be going into place is what I am suggesting as a solution, then my reading comprehension (especially math word problems) does truly suck. :)
  16. Nnewg Kahnzerson Journeyman


    I am impressed the Dev was here, listened, and is taking action. That (given their limited staff) is a win in and of itself. He read the arguments and I will live with the result.
  17. svann Augur

    There has been a lot of back and forth in this thread and some misunderstanding (my bad). Id just like to put out that we do (I hope I can speak for most) appreciate the effort you put into adding these special shinies to the game. These are some of the things that makes eq special.
  18. Sancus Augur

    No, I can understand the confusion though re-reading Ngreth's post. He isn't saying it takes the group stats, multiplies by 73, and then divides by 100, he's saying it takes the group % complete and performs those operations. In other words, if you have Hunter of Veeshan's Peak, your group charm is at 100% power, and your raid charm will then be at 73% power (100% * 73 / 100 = 73%). If you have less than 100%, say 85%, it's 85% * 73 / 100 = 62.05% (as an example).

    What that means is a Skull + raid diamond is very close to what the skull was before. Here are some numbers (Raid is w/o VP raids):

    HP: Group: 5020; Raid: 4920
    Mana: Group: 5015; Raid: 4960
    H Dex: Group: 23; Raid: 21
    H Int: Group 21; Raid 21
    H Sta: Group 21; Raid 21
    Spell Dmg: Group: 51; Raid 51

    As you can see it's a slight downgrade, although it's possible there are some stats that went up somewhere. I just kinda randomly selected relevant stats. That said, it's much more reasonable than it is now. In a perfect world it probably would've made more sense to make each raid 8% so it was a slight upgrade, but that's how Ngreth chose to do it.
    Quatr and Nnewg Kahnzerson like this.
  19. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    That is the way it works, I wan't as clear as I could have been. Comes from being too close to it.

    the same script runs on both...
    Calculate the percentage based on your group kills. This can total to 100
    Then. IF I am the Jeweled Skull of Null (Raid item) Take that total and make it 73% And add your raid accomplishments.
    Then return the percent to the item for modification.

    So the raid item does the 73% on the RAID stats (since it is a raid item with raid stats at full).

    I considered the 8%. It came down to not wanting the raids to matter too little, IMO.
    My basic advice is to continue to wait until you have completed at least one raid.
    Quatr likes this.

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