Is EQ small potatoes and not worth developing?

I would argue that the TLP experience is vastly different then the live experience and developing new content for the live servers. Specifically in that the group that does the TLP cycle starts from scratch on each server and is not replaying content on a maxed out character on a live server.

Nonetheless, it is still the same old content. There is no knowledge wall between Live and TLP. The players who play on the TLP servers know this and choose to repeat a tired cycle repeatedly. Those playing on a TLP server have access to decades of resources to help them speed through the early content. There is no mystery in any meaningful way to it. To me it is like arguing about who was the best student/player in elementary school versus those who have reached a college level of play.

There is no disagreement with me at least that the social experience with all of it's good and sometimes negative points tends to be vastly better on a TLP server. It is a choice. A choice that SoE and now Daybreak are truly grateful they make. The TLP servers are the cash cows of EQ.

Is this actually true? Is this why our expansions have been getting shittier and shittier every year, because they are just catering to TLP?

I have never played TLP, so I honestly cannot comment on the experience, but if that's where all the money is then no wonder they are just mailing it in on Live content.

It may be the same old content but the player base on both servers is very different. Players on live servers don't want to go back to do old content and players on TLP servers generally don't want new content (from my understanding). Since this thread is about new content it really isn't targeted to TLP players who are (or appear happy) with the current content that is on the TLP servers.

Pretty sure this is not the case.

I would agree. I imagine the costs are relatively minimal given the content was developed long ago. It's more a matter of setup, whatever gating they do depending on server type, etc.

Back to the topic at hand or it was at some point...

Yes, EverQuest is small potatoes in the modern MMO world. That's a fact. There is no amazing comeback, new graphics engine or anything of that sort coming to this game with its now small player base. That doesn't mean it isn't worth maintaining and developing new content and features for which are for its longtime fans who keep this game afloat with their devotion and dollars.

Today, I would compare EQ to a very successful small business, not a big one, not a Final Fantasy or Elder Scrolls MMO as a point of comparison.

I don't see any of this as bad really. It's great it's still going strong with us who love to play it. I do think though that it's good to manage one's own expectations here and be real about what to expect which is roughly what we are seeing now. If that isn't good enough, I am not sure what to tell anyone. I think more reasonable hopes and expectations could include performance improvements, particularly in terms of lag, some graphical enhancements to the existing engine, textures, etc. and a new feature here or there. More monetization would not surprise me either which is not something I welcome really but it is something I will need to shut up about and just accept. Let those who are cool with it do it and skip it if I don't like it. How I feel about that does not count for anything.

Honestly, this is pretty damned good a game this old has lived on this long. I think it's because by and large the original design has held up well to the test of time. There is a market for a game like this. They don't make them like this anymore.

Edit: I forgot one thing. I am hopeful that they might beef up the amount of content/zones in future expansions if things continue to go well financially for EQ. I'd really like to see the onboarding experience for returning players get a good tune up too as I think that would help sustain the game over time and hook in returning players rather than overwhelm them. I'd like a see a solo/molo option via instances developed too as they did with EQ2. That's a modular addition that maybe they would consider doing as part of revamping the onboarding of returning players... maybe! This is wish list stuff for me that I hope will happen but I am setting a low bar in terms of expectations to avoid disappointment. Time will tell.

If you look at the last few years you see a ton of new variations on TLP coming out of the wood works...and a sharp drop off of Live development. I get that those two things are not necessarily related, but there you have it.

Outside of the random loot servers this year the other TLP servers didn't have any real design changes which would suggest that the designers making new content are not impacted by them. The big thing would be the reduction in team size over the years.

I wonder what percentage of TLP players who keep on switching to the latest and greatest TLP server does so because (a) they enjoy classic EQ or (b) they farm Kronos for <insert reason> since it feels far more easier to farm and obtain Kronos on a TLP than it does on Live.

It is pretty even between TLP and live servers. This got mentioned in an interview by Holly Windstalker a few years ago and I think it was also noted in one of the early EG7 interviews or reports.

EG7 has rated EQ as an AAA game. This may be overrated when being compared to WoW but it is still the top game of Daybreak with 30% EBITDA (Dec 2020) of all DB games. DBG does obtain 50% revenue for the EG7 group so EQ seems to be the most important title of the whole EG7 group.

Daybreak's performance in the EG7 group:
(EG7 interim report Jan-Sep 2021)
Net revenue contribution: 41%
EBITDA (cashflow) contribution: 70%

https://www.enadglobal7.com/reports-presentations/

I sometimes will go play on TLP for the first few weeks or longer. But its more because I get to meet new players and its easy to group with random people. On live its just so much harder to go to a zone and say LFG and just get a group, on TLP you can get groups with randoms without putting the work into building those relationships.

I think other factors that attract people TLP is they don’t have to learn new content, they know the zones so well they don’t feel the need to have the map up… And the game is just easier, its easy to maximize your DPS (lots of players still “suck” but gap is smaller) There’s no large knowledge gap, I mean there is but not the same as there is on live.

It's a shame because if the graphics were overhauled, and things were streamlined a little more (no 20 hour camps, no dps races on mobs etc) EQ could easily compete with the likes of WoW. The main draw to WoW, for me and many others, was the ability to feel like you've accomplished something any time to have play time. It didn't take forever to level, you didn't have quests that you had to spend literal days worth of game time just getting 1 piece of 50 to complete...I miss EQ, I truly do. The graphics aren't what keep me from playing it regularly anymore...it's absolutely the time investment required to accomplish anything...but a graphical overhaul and a little tweaking on a complete re-release would draw a crowd. TLP has proven that enough people would pay to play the old content over again, bring folks in with that and keep them with better new content.

I'm just a guy who left after LDoN though, I don't know anything about what's happened since.

Sounds like you are asking for EQ to be redesigned from the ground up. Not saying that it would be a bad thing but there would be a lot of work to get it done.

I mean, EQ is "small potatoes" in the grand scheme of the current MMO scene. It's a 23 year old game, so it's never going to be top dog. It's in a market where ESO, FF, and WoW are all the trinity of top tier MMO's.

But just because it's a "small potato" compared to the current top games, doesn't mean it's insignificant. It still has a significant population, and it might not be a *growing* population due to the age of the game, it's a steady and consistent population that is bringing in profit.

Enough so that the game continues to release new TLP servers, as well as new expansions for live.

As someone who doesn't play live (and has never reached beyond my current character's level, which is 38), I can't comment on the quality of recent expansions. But I will say this game is doing something right, if it's still releasing new expansions 23 years later.

I'd also say that on a personal level, this game is doing something right, because even in it's current state (which yes, I agree is below what it was at launch, but still a positive state) I am finding that I prefer this game over pretty much any other current MMO, including ESO which has basically been my "main" MMO for the last couple years.

I think over the years the game has become formulized, not because that makes it easier to design but because people like consistency. Perhaps the formulization has gone too far.