Is all the Crying about Autofire Out of Group Stun Locking?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Delacroix, Apr 9, 2023.

  1. Delacroix Journeyman

    Is that what is prevented by the new ruleset that has all the Power level Krono sellers mad?

    Is there some other impact of that particular change that matters?
  2. Kahna Augur

    It will also get rid of training. Weaponized training has long been a source of CS tickets for the company.
    Kaenneth and code-zero like this.
  3. coltongrundy Augur

    you mean like 1 solo necro tagging your group's rare spawns and you can do nothing about it?
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  4. Cildar Journeyman

    Huh? That is how necro farmers work now. They can feign and they have the best dot arsenal so they get most kills even against a lot of groups for mobs that die fast. Now they will have to race against the pet attack macros and the super fast aoe spells that can be spammed. If anything this will make things a bit tougher for the necros and a bit easier for some other classes.

    The Stunlock powerlevel groups use autofire macros to stand outside the group and hold mobs frozen for the pull. This won't work any more. That does seem like it's pretty intended.
  5. coltongrundy Augur

    Then replace "necro" with whatever class is suitable to you. If you can't understand how this makes it easier for people to "steal" rare spawns, that is a cognitive deficiency on your end.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Koshk like this.
  6. Cildar Journeyman

    Look I'll be happy to admit I am an idiot... lay it out for me? Please do. All I hear are things like your post that are vague and seem like they maybe are kinda just full of cow flap. I'll just go with the "you don't actually have anything" reply till you do. But as I said.. go right ahead and lay it out for me.
    Kaenneth likes this.
  7. Cildar Journeyman

    Yeah = though in recent years in the early game, trains seem much more manageable than they used to be. Overall, eliminating the offensive use of trains is a huge plus.
  8. Zrender Augur

    Agreed. I don't really see the FTE tagging being an issue for the vast majority of people, of course aside from the people who are just being toxic, but, they for sure can't be as toxic as they are currently, because they can't repeatedly FD train your group until they get you to leave your camp. As far as fast tagging, it depends on if damage is required and if clickies are excluded. Either way, yeah, I don't think necros will be pulling off the fastest tagging. iirc druids have some very fast cast dd and also have the high powered dots, but, druids can't FD and really aren't known for being highly effective in deep dungeon solo situations. If they tag it, they still have to kill it or it kills them. There's going to be a lot of rock paper scissors with trying to be toxic with tagging. Keeping in mind they still have to kill the mob. Likely, if FTE goes in the way it's expected, some class that's fast at tagging will be a valued member of most groups that want to nullify being messed with.
    Also, gonna repeat here, just to have one more chance at someone that's coding it seeing it, with FTE PLEASE normalize target selection time, to level the playing field so that everyone with a halfway ok ping selects a target at the same speed and you make it very easy to catch third-party cheaters who target things faster than that. Everyone playing can use /tar mobby /cast 1 and spam it but non-cheaters can't move the target memory pointer to the desired target instantly then cast.
    Magneress likes this.
  9. Cildar Journeyman

    I don't know exactly what this is but yeah, that needs to not happen. You don't want the macro questers actually hitting the mob before it lands.
    Zrender and Magneress like this.
  10. YouDaGoob Lorekeeper

    The krono hunters will be out in full force. Plvl operations will be automated to single group play with OOG buffers/healers. Bards will be running through your group to pull your mobs. Your group will do nothing as their mobs run past. You notice that they are just grabbing as many mobs as they can, and you have no recourse to c9ntest them aggroing everything and kiting it in a circle as their boxes puck off mobs from the bards swarm 1 by 1, at their own pace. Then, if you leave your named up, you notice it take off down the hall because someone taunted it from across the zone. Then you see a /auc selling loot rights to your item. It will make even the most hardened EQ player sit back, put their hands behind their head, and say "ahhhhh, now THATS everquest! BETTER BUY ME SOME XP POTS"
  11. anonymous_ Lorekeeper

    People will still be buying powerleveling whether AoE PLing exists or not. And the powerlevelers aren't going to be selling their time any cheaper, their "customers" will just be paying the same for less. Just hope that the change doesn't drive powerlevelers into the mainstream zones.

    Also most people complaining are just normal players who see the obvious flaws with the system. Nobody wants to compete with a stealthed rogue standing on top of the named's spawn point with a script going to instantly tag the thing when it spawns while you do all the work killing PHs.
  12. Zrender Augur

    People are not going to be paying the same for group based PLing as they pay for AE. Not a chance. And far fewer people will pay at all. Most importantly, they will be killing at group speed. They won't be pulling and disrupting whole zones at all with any significant number of afk PLees in their groups. And, to even do that it's going to require that they can still be healed by people outside of the group. If they can't be healed OOG then they're just going to be "PLing" with a crappy group that has half the members afk.
    Not sure how a stealthed rogue even factors in. He would still have to kill the mob and survive. If he has other group members then stealth would be irrelevant and that's not even taking into account that the first time it happens (if it ever does) people would just start keeping see invis up.
  13. anonymous_ Lorekeeper

    Of course they'll charge the same and people will pay it, they charge by the hour not by the AA. Efficiency is measured by what's possible on the server, not what's possible on other servers.

    I wouldn't underestimate what RMT is capable of. Who knows what the most efficient method of PLing on the new server will be. Same AoE PLing but with scripts to swap bots in and out of the group or abusing some other loophole? Mass pulling and locking down large parts of the zone with mez? We'll have to wait and see. It's definitely not going to be "traditional exp group".

    The rogue doesn't have to kill the mob, just has to tag it. And it can be pretty much any class really, pick a race with hide and anybody can stealth indefinitely, in classic era a lot of nameds can be easily soloed by a lot of classes. Stealth itself isn't even necessary, just stand at range in a safe spot with a good ranged instant claim ability. If you have 6 boxes you can have 4 claim bots and 2 roamers that only show up to help kill. Use your imagination, the people intent on abusing encounter locking for krono are going to be using theirs.
  14. Trident Elder

    You continue to showcase you are out of your depth on understanding how this will end up playing out.

    And your idea of "normalize selection time" mechanics and enforcement is a hoot. It's like you almost concede that there will be a problem, but then come up with this magical dev fix that will never ever be implemented.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  15. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    Camp stealing and griefing ranks higher, and when nobody responds to those complaints, training is how players respond.

    The failure of the PnP drives this.

    not my style, but plenty people do it.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Fhiele like this.
  16. Ruhi Augur

    i have my own assumptions and opinions (which may be wrong) but:

    people are just making up wild scenarios in an attempt to articulate they would rather have the dps race they are accustomed to because they roll the classes and/or have boxes and/or friends (that also box) that can compete for victory in their chosen non-camp camp. The same folks who exclaim and shout out that dbg says "there are no camps" as they roll in on top of your group and out dps you.

    i've seen the bard kiting thing mentioned several times - guk and sol a will take an extremely skillful bard to kite a group of those mobs around - 1 wizzy root, or stun coupled mobs have sow (live side) along with all the hallways and tight spaces - i would be very amazed if a bard could kite "all the mobs" in those zones while their group peeled off 1 or 2 at their leisure. There may be a few zones where a bard can endlessly and mostly effortlessly kite mobs forever, but those are seemingly far and few in between - feel free to point out a more specific scenario that actually matters. If it's mid/low dungeon - a high level can already be toxic and just keep everything killed for a ransom (which i've never personally seen happen). I've seen people pull whole zones to PL, and guess what happens? i go to another pick or zone.

    ultimately though - eq will remain the same - most of the group xp gameplay will be unaffected - some high target mobs will still have toxicity - fte will cause folks to use other methods instead of the methods they already know. i also think a vast majority that are "hard core" don't like the fact that they will have no oog dps for their endeavors, and reiterate the reasoning as "we can't help others".
    Zrender and Laronk like this.
  17. Zansobar Augur

    No there are loads of changes this creates that reduce the social element of the game, and can increase the frequency of KSing.
  18. YouDaGoob Lorekeeper

    1 group of boxes used to be a challenge for DPS racing other groups at camps, now the 6 can spread around and put 1 box at each camp in 6 different picks. Then add in another 2 or 3 groups of boxes all spreading out the same way. It will be common to see a few characters sitting at your named spawns, parked and ready to tag.
  19. Chuuk Augur

    I think this is a pretty good summary - for 99% of us, it's business as usual and for the top 1%, it will just take them a week or two to figure out how to re-exploit things. It will probably cut into AoE Plvling profits tho - have to keep those stun-lock encs in your group now, so less spots for sale. Still should be able to keep the cleric OOG, so 2 spots for sale, or maybe 3 if you only go with 1 wiz?

    The only thing that irritates me personally about FTE rules is that one of my favorite things to do is main a raid-druid and DS plvl a whole team of alts in UR / Guk / MM / etc. It's also quite fruitful as far as krono-farming is concerned, so I can imagine that active krono farmers would get mad at this. Plvling is serious bizz.
  20. Tranced Lorekeeper

    I have pretty regularly sold 5 PL slots in the past using enchanter and OOG cleric, charging the same or more than cheaters selling AE PL. It does fall off after Luclin (maybe not as much now, since these changes might kill AE PL) but there is definitely a market for legitimate PL.