Increase difficulty of mobs - reduce pressure points

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Hateseeker, Apr 14, 2015.

  1. Darth Augur



    Sony added new mechanics to NEW BOSSES. Not new mechanics to 16 year old content. If you want a new game, play a new game.
  2. Darth Augur


    So you just admitted only the hardcore players deserve to experience raid content in era? Bout time.
  3. Blingx Augur

    No I said "Organized raid force." There were instances of multiple casual guilds forming alliances to raid fear etc in order to down in era content. Casuals didn't say "Hey guys I got a tank and a healer, naggy is up, who wants to go do naggy with us?" They raided the same way hardcores did and made the same mistakes as hardcores did, and wiped just as often as hardcores did. Hardcores just did it first.

    New bosses means nothing, all mobs are created from similar objects, it isn't likely that they rewrote the code for each and every single mob in the game.

    Naggy <-> Vox, same object of code, different abilities with a different 'skin'.
    Naggy <-> Phinny, same object of code, different abilities with a different 'skin'.
    Naggy <-> a_decaying_skeleton, same object of code, different abilities with a different 'skin'.

    The only thing "new" about new bosses is that they COULD have a new AoE, and a new 'skin'. Everything else about them would be reused code.
  4. Blingx Augur

    I don't want a new game, we already have a new game when you compare it to the "classic feel" that Roshan said they want to keep.

    I want the original classic feel of taking on a mob for the first time and not knowing what it did or if we would win. It doesn't become a new game simply because they change a few variables for the mobs/encounters. It's the same game on a different difficulty setting, WHICH, if tuned to be challenging would actually be the same game in classic era, because classic raids required a more complex strategy than just "show up". (E.g. Diablo II Normal -> Nightmare, same game, different difficulty).

    We don't hide from aoes anymore, we don't stand at max melee range, we don't surround the mob to stop push, we dont turn off attack at 10% in-case the mob turns. All we do is show-up and get free loot. That's not a game.
  5. Darth Augur


    I want proof of casual guilds combining BEFORE Kunark to kill Raid Targets. Go on, because my classic server The Nameless, it was well populated, had tons of casual people as well as one of the famous hardcore guilds <Legacy of Steel> as well as another guild that's claim to fame was the first AoW kill <Shock of Swords> at no point during classic before Kunark, did casual guilds combine to kill Lord Nagafen, Lady Vox, or either God.
  6. Blingx Augur

    Are you now arguing against your original point or arguing for the sake of arguing? I don't think me proving whether guilds formed alliances or not helps your point at all and attacking that point doesn't detract from mine either.

    My point was that casuals didn't kill raid targets unless they combined and even then it was never a first kill. Which you are now supporting, I think?

    I'm not saying casuals don't deserve to raid. I'm saying mobs need tuned because whether you are hardcore or not mobs don't just lay down and hand out free loot. Again, there is no game being played at that point. It's literally, log in, get loot, leave.

    *Edit: I had to go back and reread your posts, I'm not sure what you are arguing actually. It seems like you consider yourself a hardcore(from what I gather), yet you are against changing things to make the game less faceroll(which it will be for hardcores and casuals alike). /Edit*
  7. Blingx Augur

    In regard to the OP. I can see where an across the board increase would help. Everyone starts at level 1. No one has an advantage, so the difficulty of the mobs will be the same for everyone.
    You can't solo that level 1 decaying skeleton at level 1? Neither can the 'hardcores'.
    You would both require a group/help.
  8. Darth Augur


    I'm arguing that changing anything doesn't benefit the casual player. That no matter what you change it will hinder the casual, not the hardcore. The hardcore crowd are always going to get all the raid mobs in era that they want to lock down. Changing stats, or giving them random rampage and abilities won't stop that. So they wipe once. They won't wipe again. And, if they wipe, do you think casual McCasualstein has any chance of doing it?

    I'm not saying casuals don't deserve to raid. I'm saying casual aren't going to raid unless they quit being casual. IN ERA! Once Velious comes along they can start raiding, until then, you're casual. Everquest is an MMO about time and commitment. If you don't have time, and can't commit, you're not entitled to anything.
  9. Jaxarale01 Augur

    I would argue that I am entitled to any and everything everyone else is that pays to play. Thus the advent of instancing...
    Barton likes this.
  10. fazool Augur

    OK I understand your point. I think what you are essentially saying is that uber guilds are so overpowered, anyway, that they can still beat a raid or named that is 20% stronger. I think I understand that point and it makes sense.

    And the argument, then follows, that casuals will be the ones challenged disproportionately because they will have more trouble with a 20% stronger mob and the "income gap" will widen.

    And that all makes sense, on paper. But, if that's the case, then the reverse must also be true.

    If you want to narrow that gap and give casuals more, you would makes mobs weaker. Instead of harder by 20%, weaken them 20% then casuals (and casual guilds) can beat them, while excess ability in uber guilds is still just excess.

    But that clearly won't work either.
  11. MaestroM Augur

    The only thing that I would add to that statement is that I am entitled to access to content that everyone else is that pays to play.

    I don't think that people should be able to log in on monday, kill 2-3 mobs per level, be invulnerable, and one shot every mob in the game and be level 60 with kael quest gear on tuesday. Everquest classic wasn't super difficult by today's standards, but it was harder than that. But the only thing between me and raid loot, should be the raid encounters themselves, not months in OOT farming seafuries to buy gear from the sockers.

    People that are coming back to everquest for progression servers are people who want to experience Classic Content. People who never had a chance to kill CT or Naggy or Vulak. These are generally people willing to put in the work to level up a char and camp/quest/buy some gear to make their characters strong enough to take on these encounters.

    I really hope DBG doesn't share the views of some posters that people who have schedules that allow them to spend 12 hours a day in EQ are more entitled to content than those who are also willing to put the time that the content requires, but don't necessarily have as much flexibility in their schedules. If they share that view then they should tell us so we can stop wasting our time trying to come up with content access solutions. If they share the other view, that all sub payers are entitled to access to content, and just can't deliver because of labor constraints, they should tell us so we can hope for TLP 4.0 with instancing.
  12. MaestroM Augur

    Just had an evil thought.

    Hateseeker, if your goal of beefing up monsters is to slow the game down. What would you say to a daily EXP cap? Maybe after level 10, players can only earn 150% of the experience necessary to level from their current level in a day. (Maybe a soft-cap, you only keep 30% of the exp you earn after your initial 150%)

    This seems SUPER hard to implement, but it would certainly slow people down.

    Also. I'm not really advocating a system like this, just thought it would be a fun idea.
  13. guado Augur

    This sounds exactly how Gates of Discord 1.0 was made.
  14. Kalex716 Lorekeeper

    EQ is so old, its written in c++ in a style used long ago. Its not object oriented.

    You have to understand the scope of a big project like this to know why its unlikely we'll get any significant changes. They might not have access to any programmers right now, only designers who can do some script changes, but not code changes. They might have a couple of programmers, but they might be game code guys, and not online tech guys, so we can't get instancing.

    Maybe they can check in the code hacks to pull off some of these more creative solutions, but they don't have the QA teams in place to test them. Or, they don't have test server environments in the budget setup to prop a build for us to help test it out.

    Sure, on a small team doing stuff out of a garage, its easy to get guerilla and make it happen. But when you are apart of a big old AAA development company, we're talking coordination across a whole lot of different department, and money people in the middle.

    Its not likely.
    Irbax_Smoo likes this.
  15. Hateseeker Augur

    My goal was not to slow things down per se, but to spread out the debutantes (so to speak) of raiders and raiding guilds. Slowing the exp down would be somewhat more likely to slow everyone uniformly, whereas difficulty will see the hardcores mature first and with variable maturation dates for everyone else.

    Perhaps, but I'm not really advocating for them to set it as difficulty as GoD 1.0 - just harder than it is now.

    Although, it has to be said - making it very very hard would do much to approximate the Classic experience, in the sense of no one knows exactly what it takes to get stuff done and people have to band together, see what works, etc.
  16. Ootax Augur

    I'm all for making raid targets harder with increased hp and dmg. When AoW dies the first night Velious opens that says something, even on Combine/Sleeper they had to farm for a week or so to get ready for him. Casual guilds had no issues with any of the content when they where doing it. Talking about targets dying before even rendering was due to SK HT which they nerfed. The real problem is that player dmg and mitigation has been increased so much that it makes these raid targets trivial. It will be that way all the way up to and including GoD.
  17. Numiko Augur

    Well it happened on EMarr and happened several times that loose alliences killed the dragons long before Kunark. I can remember exping on bats and bugs in my late 40's and some ranger would shout "Naggy's up! .meet at the giants to start clearing! .. everyone in SolB would head over and form up, get buffed and start in on them... there may have been a dozen guild tags present.

    Yes some of the people there were from the top guilds at the time on E.Marr so it was not "just casuals" but they did not mind doing the dragon this way as sort of a community effort. and everything that dropped was just /randomed for by anyone within earshot of the body.
  18. Jaxarale01 Augur

    @Fazool
    Problem there is you allow the uberguild01 to just use 15 people to down a boss instead of 25... effectively letting them cover another dragon or more that "may" of slipped by to a lesser guild.
  19. Darth Augur


    It says people have all the BiS gear from Kunark. That gear is just as good as all the non BiS gear Shock of Swords had for the first AoW kill ever.
  20. Ootax Augur

    I'm referring to Fippy i can care less what guilds had the first ever this or that 10-15 years ago. The fact is that raid mobs are very easy on the TLPs that no one has any trouble doing them not even the casual guilds when they do them. This is because of the dmg and mitigation changes over the years making older content trivial.