Illusions Benefit Neza: +10% dodge

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Ecchicon, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. Lianeb Augur

    Agl tanks def have a higher miss percentage in my parses by about a 5% average.
  2. fransisco Augur


    I'm not trying to pile on, because I would love a solid answer to this. Can you show parses to back up your point? Josh is posting alot supporting agi, and it would further your agrument significantly if the stamina side brought recent parses (EoK+) to the table.
  3. p2aa Augur

    I posted a parse on the same RoS mob raid type, having 500 less Hagi and 500 less avoidance AC than Josh. The miss % was the same. 500 less Hagi is roughly the difference between tanks choosing Scaled Touched Celerity and tanks choosing Scaled Touched Resilience. Don't forget that the secondary stat of Scaled Touched Resilience is Hagi. So the difference is not much as you could think.
    At the start of the expansion, I compared my RoS tanking parse with a warrior who went full Hagi in EoK, and the miss % was the same. I don't have the logs anymore (been a while). Since then, this warrior when upgraded his type 5 augs choose Hsta ones. I didn't suggest him to do btw, he did it by himself.
    Anyway, what will play the biggest impact on your survival nowadays in raid is how well you use your mitigation discs, not your heroic choice.
  4. Wulfhere Augur

    Joking aside, this gets back to my earlier concerns about the un-fun negatives of modern raid gameplay design. In a nutshell we observe:

    1. Raid melee cannot be defended against, so there is no benefit to tanking with a shield for blocks
    2. Raid melee mitigation by AC and CS parses marginally, so there is no penalty for tanking with 2H weapon stance

    Raid tanks have been neutered and any class that can hold aggro can tank equally well. The requirements boil down to these few things:

    A. Constant spam healing from priests (including alliances)
    B. Lots of HP
    C. Gain and hold aggro

    If you cannot get reliable spam healing, then a real tank class using mitigation and avoidance discs will survive longer then most other classes (hello enchanters). Otherwise feel free to substitute whomever. Probably earth pets are the best raid tanks now and should be given the MT assignments. As long as the raid force positions within the steady rain of alliance heals, the MT role hardly even matters.

    So break out your 2H weapons and DPS while tanking since there isn't any real incentive to use a shield on raids anymore. Really? How serious is that conclusion? /burp

    Have we regressed back in time 19 years to spam heal chains and slow 2H tanking (to reduce riposte damage)? Seems like it.
  5. josh Augur

    If your basing your idea that ac mitigation isn't effective based on p2aa's post here

    than let me assure you that these parses are utter garbage. I hate to be rude about it but the truth is harsh sometimes.

    this here pretty much sums up why

    His highest hit taken was on the parse where had the most AC. mitigation AC does not in any way effect the maximum damage you can take. It only affect whether or not you roll max damage. not only did he see improvement from increasing his AC, he gave proof that he was using his defensive discs less effectively on the last parse with the highest AC therefore increasing his average hit. Which makes the parse utterly useless at determining the effectiveness of mitigation AC.

    This is why it has been said over and over again that it is very difficult to parse AC, a real world parse is almost certainly useless because there are way too many unknowns and human factors involved, if you want to know how effective something is you have to isolate it, and he obviously didn't do that.

    I alluded to this other parse earlier where he he gets hit MORE often, with less avoidance AC

    More avoidance AC in the first parse but yet his miss chance is 4% higher in the second parse. He doesn't attribute this to anything. It could be he used fort in the second one and not in the first one, we don't know. More likely, is gut punch and somnolence were used more effectively in the second one. and he just completely ignores this. like where does he think that extra 4% came from? Not even gonna bother addressing that? His parses are useless and you should not base any decision off of them.

    Despite this p2aa belligerently believes that the gut punch SPA doesn't do anything despite my evidence that it does.

    and even in the real world, i have no idea what you are talking about, having a 2 hander out is noticeably worse than having a shield on for the extra AC. even with holy guardian running to compensate for the loss of defensive proficiency. it's still noticeably worse with and without a shield.
    fransisco likes this.
  6. p2aa Augur

    Considering that the only one saying my parse aren't accurate is someone who produce joke opinions on this subject (gut punch massive power lol),I laugh loudly.
    My parses are more accurate than yours by a big margin. I'm repeating it, I had the same controlled environnement for 10 months, while you link sporadic parses of different mobs.
    As to you assuming I did x and y on my parses to explain z, like "I didn't use my mitigation disc" on this parse, or "I didn't use fortitude" on this one, this is probably the best proof how deillusional you are, and it makes reading you even more a joke.
    Feel free to ignore my parses, I don't care at all.
    This is my last post on this thread btw I won't look anymore in it, because this discussion has lost his interest when a moron started to turn this thread into a "I'm right, you are wrong" and "I'm knowing better than you" thread.
  7. Daedly Augur

    To the original topic here, it would appear the actual benefit of the 10% may be nothing. Playing with numbers in my spreadsheet, 10% is at most showing an increase of 1 to 2%. And since my minimum rating for dodge should be about 19% and i am only seeing roughly 3% actual. Doing some quick math, it would maybe take me from 3% to 3.15%. Assuming no other considerations, which there obviously is.
  8. Baldur Augur

    Sorry to necro this thread, but it was linked in the TLP forums and I had a question about the formula. Because no mob has strikethrough on TLPs yet that's not what I'm worried about.

    The DodgeSkill in the formula, is that moded dodge skill, or base dodge skill?

    So for example if you have 10% dodge skill mod and your base skill is 500. Do you use the 500 base dodge in those formulas or do you use 550 the moded dodge skill?
  9. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard