If Yelinak fails, at least they will know why.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by GRACUS, Apr 29, 2022.

  1. Aenoan Augur

    Yelinak is happening. Get over it.
  2. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I got you dawg - Wayfarer TLP
  3. Haak Augur


    There has been a very vocal portion of the community that dislikes the Mischief ruleset, and plenty of topics on the matter here in the last month. The overall sentiment of those opposed to it typically include:

    Difference in progression

    Mischief arguably removes the primary 'challenge' the game is designed around (gear progression). The mechanics of this game were never all that complicated, and you've always been limited to what your gear allows you to accomplish. This applies to solo, group, and raiding. EverQuest has many years of game design tailored around setting a benchmark, requiring gear to clear it, and then setting the next benchmark. For some players radically altering that formula with increased, tradeable loot feels fresh because it's different. For those of us who dislike the ruleset, it feels like it cheapened the entire point. I wouldn't say either group is entirely right or wrong here, because different players are motivated by different aspects, so it's really a matter of taste. I personally quit Mischief quickly, when I was able to near BiS multiple characters by dipping into my krono stockpile with minimal effort. You've always been able to do that to a degree, but Mischief just had so much loot that it was too easy.

    Summary: If you get bored (and quit playing) when you've run out of carrots to chase do not choose Mischief.

    Difference in anticipated gains

    The other shift with the Mischief ruleset is it removes the anticipated rewards from many camps. You can't rely on the named mob your farming to always reward you with the exact item your after. Part of the chase is anticipating what could happen and then getting that dopamine hit when it does. Random loot removed a lot of the predictability, which for some players added a surprise mechanic that they enjoy and for others diminishes the importance of even focusing on a particular target rather than anything in that range. Again, this is a matter of preference.

    Summary: If you like surprise mechanics, Mischief is your best bet. If you prefer an expected reward from the associated endeavor, choose something else.

    For all the debate about the merit of random loot it really is just a matter of preference. I don't want my EverQuest experience to feel like Diablo. I like and play both games, but I appreciate how they differ in the reward structure and progression. In the same way that I wouldn't want Diablo 4 to adopt 72-man raids that require DKP to purchase an item dropped from a boss, I don't want EverQuest to have Diablo-style loot. Other players seem to really enjoy the mash-up of two things that worked well independent of one and another. You'll have to choose whichever keeps you engaged and rewarded.
    Skuz, Chikkin and Dragon Jockey like this.
  4. Chikkin Augur

    Really great post. Thank you for taking the time to write that.

    Ya, it sure sounds fun, but the first point is the most scary, that I'd get all into it, only to find myself bored/let down later. --- I may still go that direction, or even if I resist until Vaniki, if Vaniki dies, I probably go try out the mischief rule-set. -- I definitely do like things shaken just a bit that they're fresh and new, so there's that.
    Skuz likes this.
  5. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I like the Mischief ruleset myself, at least academically-speaking, because it tried to do something different & while I don't see any need to repeat it super-frequently I can definitely see it becoming a "regular appearance" like every 3-5 years.

    It was very popular (helped by the pandemic quite a lot) and anything that is popular should be repeated because that's good for keeping the game profitable, just not too often that it loses value or shuts out other ideas getting a chance.
  6. HekkHekkHekk Augur

    Oh we talkin' academics now, bubba?
  7. Aenoan Augur


    I didn't get to play on it. But I agree and not everyone is gonna want to play on certain rule sets so constantly making similar servers all the time is gonna detract from the game over all which keeps playing from returning. This game is to old to bring in new players and there is a lot of reasons for that.
    Skuz likes this.
  8. Haak Augur


    For full context, I thought I was going to thoroughly enjoy Mischief when I first looked at the ruleset. I knew I loved EverQuest, and I knew I loved Diablo, and thought "how cool to see aspects of two great games bundled together!". In reality I found that when I was able to get everything I wanted that easily, I didn't feel incentivized to do anything. I was just getting stuff for the sake of getting stuff, and it showed no signs of slowing down.

    I believe if you started today, and just wanted the best server to get you caught up, Mischief is the ticket. I've goofed around on it since when I needed to kill time, but I'm the kind of player that needs a goal to work towards, and guildmates doing the same so I can share in their wins. When everyone has everything, it just feels hollow. Turns out I can't enjoy EverQuest when I'm just going through the motions.
    Skuz and Chikkin like this.
  9. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I may be reading you wrong, but it seems that for you Mischief undermined your "sense of achievement" and if so then I think your post wiill reverberate with many others.

    Too little loot vs enough loot vs too much loot is a balance.
    Haak likes this.
  10. Branntick Augur

    Chasing loot is pretty much the only reason I play EQ, so playing on a server where it's literally given out for free would kill my drive pretty fast.
  11. Kahna Augur

    I can see how Mischief would be too much loot if someone went at it like they do a normal TLP. The beauty of Mischief is the ability to play it casually. My guild raids 3 hours 2 nights a week, not the 3 nights most guilds do. We never split raid, even though we could, and we often end early, rather than try to squeeze in one last target. As a result we have found the loot amount to be right in the Goldilocks zone. I can anticipate having almost, but not quite all of my items upgraded by the time the new expansion drops. Due to this, Mischief has kept me interested far longer than any other server. I am constantly getting nice upgrades, but I still have things to work on.

    As for group things to do. My friends and I often hit up small group raid targets like primals or fire minis and get gear for alts. Or we work on tradeskills or chip away at our LDoN aug or contemplate doing the BiC quest and then decide it is still too annoying. We don't buy much, if any gear. But I can also see how someone could kill their group game by using krono to just buy what they want. It does take some reservation in that regard. But in the end farming the gear is easy enough that you never need to buy anything. And I loved that if you were farming a specific item, like say, my peggy cloak, I wasn't spending hours on end chasing my bard friend around South Karana. I could do a few hours in Najena, or camp the AC in OOT, or kill the named Gobbies in Permafrost. I could still spend hours farming the item, but I got a change of scenery, and I could always find a camp open, somewhere.

    Mischief is a casual's dream server, some of them just don't realize it.
  12. Midnitewolf Augur

    To be honest, improving the game actually means adding new code and just cloning the existing code with a few tweaks is much, much easier and cheaper.

    However, I am with you in spirit. Honestly what I would love is EQ with a major graphics overhaul bring the graphics up to 2022 standards or hell even 2018 standards. My old EQ buddies won't play on a TLP because they say they can't deal with the 20+ year old graphics and I am sure there are tons of old EQ players that feel the same way.
    Stymie and Aenoan like this.
  13. Aenoan Augur


    Honeslty. If they could just fix their Free to Play model and the UI that would be a good start. They could make this game more accessible at leas to vets, logging in and realizing you have to regear your lv 90 or 100 char just so you can do ..well anything without gettin' one shot would be nice. They could examine other MMO's and see how they do it. I think FF has the best F2P model out there.

    But combat and graphics and a lack of customization is realistically the issues. But without remaking the game entirely I don't see how they could. Though if FF did I am sure they could it just might require a few bake sales.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Imagine this:

    TLP help to finance improvements to the game that will do all the things that you want.

    The TLP population is almost as big financially as the Live population, not catering to 50% of your income stream would be....stupid.

    Games needs all of its current players no matter what server they are playing on, and making the game better for everyone is the dev team goal.
  15. Haak Augur

    That's the gist, yeah. It all comes down to where you fall on Bartle's Taxonomy of Players. I'm absolutely an achiever, so Mischief doesn't fit with my primary motivation. Socializers and explorers probably enjoy it more.
    Skuz likes this.
  16. Zansobar Augur


    Do you believe nearly half of DPG's resources throughout the year are devoted to the TLP servers they launch each year? I bet it isn't even 10%. I think the devs are still doing the same thing SOE did back in the day. Back then they used the money made from EQ to finance all their other projects (which mostly failed) and the current devs are using the money made from TLP servers to finance the Live game since the vast majority of their effort for each year is the continual push for yet another expansion that a very large percentage of their player base couldn't care one iota about.
  17. Chikkin Augur

    To keep it clear for me, with broad-strokes and guessing...

    1) How much resources come from Live vs. How much from TLP?
    2) Regardless of number 1's answer, how would you guess they spend their resources towards Live and TLP?

    My wild-guessing would be...

    1) 33%-40% resources come from Live, the other 60-67% come from annual TLP refreshes and people who are playing only on TLP servers.
    2) Harder for me to guess here. Hopefully, unless a big project/new feature warrants it, they are putting the resource profits equally'ish back towards their sources. Aka, TLP accounts for 66% of their income, they put back 66% of the resources into TLP focuses hardware, and various manpower/dev-hours/software.


    No point being made, or agenda, just thought of the question as I read your post here.
  18. Captain Video Augur

    [quote="Chikkin, post: 4135646, member: 406542"1) How much resources come from Live vs. How much from TLP?
    2) Regardless of number 1's answer, how would you guess they spend their resources towards Live and TLP?

    My wild-guessing would be...

    1) 33%-40% resources come from Live, the other 60-67% come from annual TLP refreshes and people who are playing only on TLP servers.
    2) Harder for me to guess here. Hopefully, unless a big project/new feature warrants it, they are putting the resource profits equally'ish back towards their sources. Aka, TLP accounts for 66% of their income, they put back 66% of the resources into TLP focuses hardware, and various manpower/dev-hours/software.[/quote]


    And you would be wrong on both counts. The revenue is approx. 50/50, tilting slightly towards Live. Financial reports from EG7 were published last fall, and you can find links to those reports in these forums if you make just a little effort to search. There is no need to guess.

    The majority of the development effort is spent on the current game, at the specific direction of the IP owner. If the Live game were to go into maintenance mode, the plug would be pulled on all TLP activity. You can't have one without the other. The alternate TLP rulesets each take up a significant amount of development effort, but do not return the same revenue. TLPs make money from Krono sales, and the Krono buyers spend the vast majority of their money on standard rules servers. From a revenue standpoint, the Yelinak server will be a big success.
    Chikkin likes this.
  19. Chikkin Augur

    Nice! Interesting stuff on the revenue. My Google-fu is pretty good, but ya, I didn't care enough to put a little effort to search, I'm just having the discussion here. Thank you for putting the info here though, for others to see as well who may not have looked it up.

    Using only common-sense guessing here, (and not more googling). In response to the part of your post I bolded, without the specifics of following the money trail, which of course not everything is posted in the financial reports, would it not be safe to assume (if we have any faith in the company at all) that they are spending money aimed at what is best going to generate even more revenue? I'm sure they all like to gets raises, and would like more help around the office, and higher salaries to entice people for all those jobs postings, they have.

    In other words, I 100% believe your 50/50 comment, and don't plan to double-check/follow up, but unless I understood incorrectly, the part I bolded, you're suggesting that they are not spending their resources wisely?

    The thread is about Yelinak failing. I don't think it will, I think it will do just fine, at least do "fine enough that it paid for itself and then some" ... but that's above my pay grade and not my concern, when people stop spending money on the standard TLP rule-set, they will stop making them.
  20. Manafasto Augur

    Bags do pull in some money.