If we are being forced to rotate...

I agree that the extreme variance that they put in with the reduced timers needs to go. But I find it funny that you bring up competition when all your guild does is train anyone who is about to take a target from you.

Your guild doesn't want competition, they want a monopoly.

I vote for a static 2 day respawn time with +/- 4 hour variance.

2 day base respawn is probably too long with the number of guilds that are likely to be involved in these rotations. With four guilds in a rotation, you'd be looking at hitting each target once per week, when some are already used to doing it daily or nearly daily. With six in rotation, it's up near once every two weeks. And that's with no declared FFA days.

I disagree.

The old variance was almost the same as the new variance on the mobs spawning.but the spawn timers are shorter.

Shortening the 24 hour variance might be bad though because the spawn times might get stuck at certian hours of the day here they always spawn around 10am plus or minus a couple of hours,

It sounds like some guilds want the socking reduced.

Variance adds nothing.

If you want he spawns to move around over the course of the day, change the timer to 17 hours, or 29 hours.

Variance is an exceptionally bad mechanic anyway but with a rotation involved it's just an unmitigated loser of a system

I guess the big thing I see is if we decreased variance to say +/- 3 hours or something like that, I fear that it would promote extreme socking.
As it stands now (at least on LJ) the amount of targets that pop per day plus the amount of variance in the timers makes it so we rarely sock now days unless you are coming into the last 3 hours of a timer (which is a very good thing!). With multiple gods/dragons in window you are relying on your mobilization of your force rather than the socking of a target.
Yes, the variation is a bit tough but I fear what decreasing the variation a drastic amount would mean.

That being said, if it were on targets in rotation than, yes, you can plan ahead better if the variance were low.

I think that's the assumption that we're all operating under here....

If there is a rotation, then there is *NO* motivation to sock. The need to rush to get to the mob is completely mitigated. A guild could take their time and execute the raid how they want. So variance is completely unnecessary. I don't mean reduce it to 3 hours. I mean get rid of it completely. It serves no purpose, adds no value. Targets spawn X hours after spawning. No need to get there 5 hours early, get their 15 minutes beforehand, buff up, wipe all night, finally kill it, crack open a beer and celebrate. That's how raiding should be, fun.

Thats not fun for people who are competitive.

God forbid a guild is organized, moves fast, and knows what its doing. That was at the core of EQ raiding and now DBG is turning this into some welfare loot line.

Apok cant even kill anything on their own even bind rushing thats why they are concerned about the 1 hour thing.

Most of us are spoiled and don't find it healthy to play this way anymore. :/

I think you'll find, in the post I just made in the other thread, that I agree with you. But we have different ideas about what the result should be.

Rotations are fine with me. They actually help me and I came back because rotations will allow me to get a look at raid targets that I would not have been able to otherwise due to timing constraints.

But I understand that I'm not really in the majority on the issue. From what I understand, no one really "wants" a rotation. Certainly before last Friday there was no wild public outcry for a rotation (someone wanna check me on this one?).

The win-win-win-win-win solution in my mind has always been exped instancing with long lockouts added to the current structure. Top guilds will still get most of the targets, and most of the loot, and all of the competition that they get currently. Other guilds with time constraints will get to see raid content, albeit on a much more dragged out scale.

Yeah, really doesn't harm anyone. World spawns are still desirable, as it gives you extra loot for the week. Instance spawns gives you something to do if you find yourself between spawns.

For everyone else, it gives 3-4 expedition raids to tackle. That's 2-3raids per week, more than enough to keep most of us more casual players occupied. And if a guild decides they want to compete, that option is always available.

Maybe because people don't care to play the content GoD introduced. Just because that content is mostly instanced doesn't mean it's as enjoyable as Classic. I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but.... there are other people that play EQ besides you.

You are correct in some aspects but I think you should read into the rules of both server rotations. Here they are to the best of my knowledge:

1. The mobs are cycled between FFA and Rotated for example: Vox pops today and it is your guild's. Vox pops tomorrow and it is FFA. Vox pops the next day and it is guild #2. Vox pops day 3 and it is FFA again.
Meaning there 50% of the mobs have the potential to be socked still.
2. On a rotation mob, the guild responsible for killing it has 1 hour to engage (plus or minus depending on the mob). This means if a guild takes a long time to mobilize, they will lose their mob.
3. Not sure about RF servers but there are rules to wiping on the mob on LJ. If you wipe, the mob goes FFA meaning any guild can come and kill it. There is no wiping all night.

Imagine a mob with no variance what so ever on a FFA day.. That would be crazy but something I don't want to see lol.

Variance still matters if there are rules in place about how long you have to engage your target. In practical terms, you can't expect that mob to be left alone all day. You still need to move quickly to get your mob. A lot of variance means you need to be on and ready for a long time (almost like socking in a sense), and short variance allows people to plan better.

It's much better on LJ.Not only u already have a rotation but on each day a guild can i have 1 or 2 raid mob the 2nd guild might have 1 raid mob and sky and the 3rd 1 can i have 1 raid mob.Anybody is free to engage any minis in hate or fear.It seems to work good overall except when we r on ffa mob day then we might have all 3 guild engaging same mob.

No need for variance now. Not that competition was meaningful and standardized before, but variance now is just plain sadism.

If it was so great, why did they start instancing everything? Was it because they discovered that making content inaccessible, either due to overpowered mobs or the actions of other guild (ie uninstanced gateway mobs and c-blocking other guilds) made people want to unsub? Funny that DBG didn't learn from mistakes of the past and did exactly that.

I'd much rather have a 0 respawn time with 24 hour variance on the base instance of the raid target for people to FFA, Race, troll, belittle each other over and then have an Expedition NPC that takes kronos and hands out an expedition that is identical to the hardcore heritage expedition only with the newly revamped dragons instead of the level 75-95 versions. You know it can happen cause they already accidentally did it on live #Roshenliedaboutinstancing

lol you do not know what you talking about. my guild of 70 people have sit at Vox waiting for her to spawn for 8 hours and me sitting there to wait for her to spawn for about 18 hours. and let me tell you something there is nothing fun about that. It a waste of time.

Do you consider it competition when you are the only one trying? Sorta funny really, it's like you clowns go downtown, decide to race to the next intersection, and brag about your "win" when nobody else is running.

Maybe you wieners could get special dye, so your characters were permanently yellow. OH, and a special title, Wieners of Ragefire, yeah, that's the ticket! Then the rest of us can show the respect you so richly deserve for proving how organized and fast you are.