If 2023 TLP is PvP TLE server

No but the difference will be this is going to a PvP TLE server.

Just look at EQ2,
https://www.everquest2.com/news/eq2-zarrakon-new-tle
Our newest PvP TLE server, named Zarrakon, is on the way! It will launch on April 25, 2023 at 12:00 p.m. PDT this is an All Access members server so upgrade up to play. Let’s go through some details about what you can look forward to:

• Faction based PvP
• Free Trade server

I didn't play EQ2 much but i am pretty sure the classes there may be more balanced when it comes to pvp. EQ IMO and the opinion of a lot of other people is not a good game if you like PVP. There are so many better options.

As much as I would love to play EQ PvP again, the TLP model would be awful for it. The mechanical changes have totally destroyed any semblance of class balance, multiboxing is cancer for PvP, and everyone uses that third-party program, you know the one I mean. Add the Daybreak store potions, out-of-era healing potions and so on, it would just be a garbage PvP experience. Monks with 23/26 weapons in Kunark, shaman dots doing twice as much damage nowadays as they originally did with half the cast time, all kinds of class changes made over the years that completely ruin the PvP. Instanced raiding means everyone will have full raid gear after a couple of months, so players' resists will be so high that several classes are rendered entirely obsolete.

If they could somehow make a server that doesn't have these issues, I'd be all over it. But it's a pipe dream. If they make a PvP TLP at all, it'll just be a carbon copy of the default TLP model with PvP switched on, and it'll be dead on arrival because it's impossible to get any decent PvP gameplay with all the non-classic features that have been added to the game, the class-redefining balance changes, and the fact that everybody will have perfect real-time vision of the whole zone.

Normal TLP that starts in classic. Normal blue server. Except… it’s Faction based teams. Language barriers between races. Enable PvP on all the raid terrain similar to how PvP is toggled when you walk on and off an arena. Remove Agents of Change from the server. Now you have a server where completing a raid will be a significant challenge. Who knows, maybe the Sleeper stays sleeping this time?

hey Skuz, been a while since we raided together on a blue server, still got your zerker? I wasnt so much aiming at you here, i actually enjoy reading most of your posts, I think you re slightly wrong here though, I dont necessarily believe that a pvp server would be populated with only old pvp'ers that somehow came out of the woodwork, sure there may be the odd one coming back. but when red99 launched id say the vast majority was old blue players that decided to give it a try, I was one of them, and the first couple of weeks was an absolute blast, hundreds of low levels in each zone, largely not knowing what they were doing in terms of pvp.

Hey Larsen, you re probably on to something there in terms of everyone being raidgeared pretty soon, resists would need tweaks. But the same mechanism would also prevent big guilds from grieving smaller less experienced PvPers round the clock as they could take refuge in instanceses and do do some raiding as a guild, only open world and the group targets would be contested, so if you d like PvP you could get it, once you had enough you can still help equip if your guild. So I dont agree that the Tlp platform
would completely suck for pvp. i think it would offer casuals a nice middleground amount of pvp.

He's on Antonius Bayle getting old & fat while I take a break from EQ since TOL Beta ended, live wasn't my cup of tea anymore for a bunch of reasons.

Well, Boxer Shorts underwear went out of fashion in the 50's then came back in the 90's so maybe once EQ hits the 40 year mark then just like those style of underpants EQ will feel new again & PVP will be worth a shot?

No, nobody who is not deluded believes that.

EQ's open-world PvP is dead as a concept, as a design.

Too much has changed to render it a complete disaster.
The effort that would be required to clean up the spells & abilities is too great being too expensive in developer hours to even be worth bothering with it for the tiny audience that exists.
It is not *as if by magic* going to find a *new audience* just by a PvP TLP being made with no investment in the design because it is a model that has irretrievably failed and fallen into a state of collapse.

IF EQ truly wanted to attract a new audience for PvP, it would be best advised to simply not bother and instead design the next game in the EverQuest universe to consider PVP as part of the design from the ground up so that it can better mesh with what has always been a PvE-centric MMORPG franchise, as in the world, the abilities & spells, the styles of PvP content that are able to be accessed so on & so forth.

Tell me you never played on a PVP server past level 20 without telling me that you never played on a PVP server past level 20.

Also you can't corpse camp anymore.

Rallos Zek was the highest population server for multiple years straight during EQs peak popularity. Vallon Zek was a overflow server because Tallon Zek was so popular.

PVP haters making up again.

And they all closed down almost 20 years ago with the only remaining PvP server pretty much on life support. In the time since Everquest launched there have been many additions to the MMO PvP market that do a much better job at the PvP game then Everquest ever did. There hasn't been much life in the Everquest PvP game for a long time and there is no community to support a new server anymore.

You can't just depend on how it used to be in order to claim that it would be popular again.

That still leaves us with all the other issues. How can there ever be meaningful PvP with:

1) Third-party cheat programs that are apparently impossible to enforce
2) Wildly unbalanced class mechanics (inflated DoT damage, monk epic fist ratio, etc.)
3) Daybreak Shop potions like 4-hour undispellable SoW
4) Out-of-era healing potions that heal for completely absurd amounts

These things will ensure that the PvP is absolute garbage.

There would be 5 actual people on the server and they would be avoiding each of the 4 other people.

All live servers are on life support. There have been TLPs that have had more active players then every live server combined.

There are also tons of MMOs that do a better job at PvE then Everquest. Silly argument.

EQ PvP sucks when people cap resistances without buffs/songs in like TSS. Nobody wants to play that. A TLP would allow people to play EQ PvP in the expansion that it's actually good.

It's 100s time a better argument then arguing Live Zek is what the EQ TLP PvP market is like.

That is not true there are plenty that hit medium population and several that high population on a regular basis.

But it is the truth, the Everquest PvP game has been dead for a very long time, in fact most of the life of the game.

Unless they lock the server at an early expansion it is going to run into that problem,

Zek is the Everquest PvP market and even events that are designed to draw people in to show support for PvP get little activity.

Good lord, if that were true then why would they dedicate like 8 months out of the year making new expansions and a good chunk of the remaining time making new content for events like anniversary, brew day, frostfell that most tlp players will never get to see? Mischief is likely their most populated server period but FV is a close 2nd. If anything all TLP (minus Mischief) are on life support after their first year (if not sooner Vaniki/Miragul)

How about we get back on topic? Stop feeding the trolls that derail every PvP thread please. They do it every year and successfully get us off topic.

Now that’s out of the way, what would be the ideal PvP TLP? A replica of Tallon Zek or a replica of Sullon Zek? Rallos Zek and Zek are just not going to cut it imo. Server rules similar to Agnarr with Coirnav exp rates?Toggle PvP on/off through the PoD? Or open world PvP? Or raid zone/specific areas of a zone PvP enabled? Let’s start a discussion please lol.

None of that matters unless they first agree to roll back the myriad changes to the game that would render PvP pointless (e.g. double/triple DoT damage with half the original cast time, 3000pt HoT potions at level 60 and things like that), as well as figuring out a way to fix the fact that currently everyone uses That One Program that gives them perfect real-time vision of the whole zone. If they can do nothing about that, there's no point even launching a PvP TLP.

Just to give a couple of examples of what I mean when I talk about class balance, Envenomed Bolt originally ticked for 150ish damage and had a 6.1 second cast time. On TLPs it ticks for 350 damage with a 3 second cast time. It literally one-shots most people in classic. Touch of Night, the level 59 necromancer lifetap, originally had a 6 second cast time but on TLPs it's 3 seconds. These things completely destroy any notion of class balance and no PvP server can possibly launch with these changes in place. The PvP will be raw garbage if these things, and the many other similar changes, were not reverted to their original state.

I don't see why anyone would even want to play on a PvP server with the current mechanics. Before it makes sense to talk about a potential PvP TLP, the first question is whether or not the developers are even willing to release a server that has era-appropriate mechanics. If they aren't, any talk of a PvP TLP is completely pointless. Why even discuss a PvP server before we've had clarification about whether or not the devs will entertain the notion of releasing a server that doesn't have all this wildly unbalanced stuff on it? Any PvP TLP released with the default model would be dead inside a month.

I think that is the biggest roadblock to ever getting a TLP server launched; I highly doubt there is a dev on the team that cares about EQ PvP (unlike EQ2 where I believe they have at least 1 if not 2 devs that enjoyed the PvP there). Without that insider there just will never be a big push since they have no objective proof that such an endeavor to do an even halfway decent PvP server would be profitable.

If there was a dev that did enjoy it then at least they could start it as a labor of love to begin with and then start seeing about drumming up more player support. Without it you PvP players are going to have a huge uphill battle to show that it could be profitable for DPG to launch one. A very few people posting on the forums asking for it isn't going to cut it. At this time about the only way you can show there is a large section of players DPG is missing out on is by making Zek and/or Red99 massively populated for a time. Red99 would probably be the better option since it is more in era of when PvP was at its "best"; from my understanding.

We have extremely limited dev resources and the majority of the player base doesn't want to see those scarce resources wasted on a futile endeavor when there are much bigger things that need attention.

Like fixing the 2023 Stomple's Day bunny mount shader 2.0 issue. Among other things

Because that affects more than 25 players, unlike PvP TLP fans.

Exactly. People that want a PvP TLP are literally in the 10s!