Ideal Melee Raid Group

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Ditka, May 16, 2019.

  1. Ditka Journeyman

    Was just curious what others thoughts were on the most ideal group setup for melee within raids? (class wise)

    For me, I'd have to go with:

    Shaman - Heals, Epic, spires, lion
    Bard - Songs, Abilities, Epic ((Although most of the time our Bards/Shaman aren't on the same page with clicking Epic at the same time, which is a problem))
    Ranger - Fang, Auspice, Synergies
    Beastlord - Dicho's and other abilities
    Berserker - Nice synergy effect and other abilities
    Monk - Nice weapon damage synergy

    That would probably be my perfect melee raid group. Obviously player ability would come into play, but if everyone plays up to par, then this seems like having 3 groups like this would be best.

    Anyone have any opposing views?
  2. Ryino Master

    A real melee wanna correct me but since you can MGB auspice and I think Rog synergy is more damage than Ranger you might wanna switch those 2. Another consideration is your caster groups getting the twincast from fang over you melee groups might be a bigger DPS boost to the raid, I havn't parsed that out but you might want to research that.
  3. Sancus Augur

    It's fairly decidedly Shaman, Bard, Ranger, Beastlord, <Melee>, <Melee>, with Berserkers, Rogues, and Monks filling those last two spots. A strong argument can be made for having one Berserker per group, which leaves 3 slots for Monks or Rogues.

    It is unfortunate that in an "ideal" raid comp with 3 melee groups, you end up with 6 slots for 3 classes. The solution is likely to remove Berserkers from the game.
    Boze, Bahdah, Winnowyl and 6 others like this.
  4. Belkar_OotS Augur

    This ^^^ except I don't think he meant removing berserkers from the game lol. More likely monks or possibly rogues.

    I will say a poorly played anything versus a well played something else should be a factor especially for those mid tier guilds. A beasties who doesn't use dicho/diss and fury and puts out sub par numbers has no business replacing a second well played pure melee in the group for example.
    Zenshai and Lisard like this.
  5. Fintank Augur

    Ideal is an interesting word for it, since "ideal" group makeup is somewhat dependent on which class you're trying to mod more.

    For example the Monk will increase the Berserker and MAYBE the BL more (if they're using 2hander) than a Rogue would. Whereas the Rogue will benefit the Ranger and Bard in the group more and BL (if they're using 1-Handers *I think*, I haven't tested.)

    Rangers on the other hand if you're trying to get the most out of them won't want/have either of the 3 melee classes in group. (Rog/Monk/Bers)


    It's generally a wash between Casters vs Melee on Scarlet. The only wrench in it would be when it comes to Necromancers. Since Scarlet has the ability to twincast their Proliferation triggers off the Wound DoT's. However the timing on that would take a lot of effort for the Necros and Ranger involved. With that said though when it comes to an awesome melee group vs an awesome caster group, melee group wins out every time in the terms of Ranger support. Honestly even an average group of melee will win out on most events as well. Sorry Casters </3
    Sancus, Allayna and Lisard like this.
  6. Lisard Augur

    WTB SCF and bard epic clickie item usable by monks kthxk put me in wut ever group np =P

    but its pretty unanimous on the melee group set ups otherwise. just make sure your putting the good players with the support and not just X class because its X class.
  7. Allayna Augur

    I couldn’t agree more with the setup. It is super frustrating making groups and rotating between 3 classes for lets say 8 slots as we often dump a tank group for added dps.

    Casters on the other hand get the shaft. I haven’t noticed a huge difference in dps for attempting to use synergies with casters because they burn differently....want IoG at different times...
    Arraden likes this.
  8. Funk Augur

    Zerkers aren't going anywhere, they top parses.
  9. Allayna Augur

    Interesting...try putting a zerk in a tank group and see where they fall...it’s all about the support.
  10. Belkar_OotS Augur

    Really? Very interesting. Is this a function of your dual raiding you guys supposedly do with alts? A full group of tanks swap toons? Or are you swapping a group worth of bench? I assume you only do this during farm as the flag needs interfere with the race.

    Caster burn synergy seems to mostly be a function of stacking the same class together from my experience so it's easier to line up support for the druid and enchanter and occasional bard.
  11. Allayna Augur

    We haven’t found anything worth split raiding in a while.

    No we swap a group of tanks and healers for a group of benched melee dps.

    Aye, we group the necros in 1 group, the wizzes in another and mages in another....tends to work out for alliances and with how everything is a balance fight this expansion it makes more sense. But what I was commenting on was that melee benefit from synergies while the current raid game and setups disadvantage using the synergies of casters.
    Arraden likes this.
  12. Arraden Elder

    Rangers are versatile in their place - I use them in caster groups as much as I do melee groups - they parse well in either, and as Allayna notes, it's about the support.

    Each class requires a slightly different set-up and click set to maximise their DPS. Building groups around best performers can be useful.
  13. Ryino Master

    I tried to get all the mages in one group but the Wizzies got mad they didn't get any fire focus lol. I can always dream though...
  14. Belkar_OotS Augur

    Interesting thought that I personally tend to just ignore in favor of a 1 size fits all approach to our raid format. All of GMM, T3, Fight Fire, Plane of Fire and 2 Generals could be done with 2 tank groups if they execute well with solid healers. Could probably slim up on Moonserf, and Prince also but the split nature doesn't lend itself for the effort.
  15. Telkiney Elder


    Scarlet Cheetah Fang III
    In Game Description: The flame of the Scarlet Cheetah consumes 250 endurance every 6 seconds for 2m 24s (24 Ticks) and allows your next 20 skill attacks to be performed twice per activation.
    Slot 3: Limit Effect: Skill Attack

    I don't believe casters benefit from this ability, thus Rangers are a staple in the Melee group rather than caster groups.
  16. Allayna Augur

    Having to make 4 tank groups for smoke and prince, albeit, not filled groups usually 4 in each group and 3 split up ones for esianti amongst the raids we drop to 2 tank groups keeps me quite busy shuffling and reforming the raid tool constantly.
  17. Belkar_OotS Augur

    Casters benefit.
    [49532/49529] Scarlet Cheetah Fang IV
    Classes: RNG/254
    Skill: Melee
    Endurance: 0, Upkeep: 42 per tick
    Target: Caster Group, MGB: No
    AE Range: 150'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Stacking: Scarlet Cheetah Fang 4
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 2.5m (25 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 25 Matching Spells
    Recourse: Greater Scarlet Cheetah Fang IV
    1: Cast: Scarlet Cheetah's Twincast IV once if Caster Priest Classes
    2: Increase Chance to Twincast by 100%
    3: Limit Effect: Skill Attack
    4: Limit Effect: Exclude Twincast Blocker
    5: Limit Max Level: 254 (lose 100% per level)
    6: Limit Type: Detrimental
    7: Limit Class: ALL

    [49528/49525] Greater Scarlet Cheetah Fang IV
    Classes: RNG/254
    Skill: Melee
    Endurance: 0, Upkeep: 84 per tick
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Stacking: Scarlet Cheetah Fang 203
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 1s
    Duration: 2.5m (25 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 120 Matching Spells
    1: Increase Spell Mana Cost by 100%
    2: Limit Effect: Current HP
    3: Limit Effect: Skill Attack
    4: Limit Effect: Exclude Twincast Blocker
    5: Limit Max Level: 254 (lose 100% per level)
    6: Limit Type: Detrimental
    7: Increase Chance to Twincast by 100%
    8: Limit Effect: Current HP
    9: Limit Effect: Skill Attack
    10: Limit Effect: Exclude Twincast Blocker
    11: Limit Max Level: 254 (lose 100% per level)
    12: Limit Type: Detrimental

    [49536/49533] Scarlet Cheetah's Twincast IV
    Classes: RNG/254
    Skill: Melee
    Mana: 1
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Stacking: Scarlet Cheetah Fang 103
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 2.5m (25 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 5 Matching Spells
    2: Increase Chance to Twincast by 100%
    3: Limit Effect: Current HP
    4: Limit Effect: Exclude Twincast Blocker
    5: Limit Min Mana Cost: 10
    6: Limit Type: Exclude Combat Skills
    7: Limit Type: Detrimental
    Allayna likes this.
  18. Allayna Augur

    [49532/49529] Scarlet Cheetah Fang IV
    Classes: RNG/254
    Skill: Melee
    Endurance: 0, Upkeep: 42 per tick
    Target: Caster Group, MGB: No
    AE Range: 150'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Stacking: Scarlet Cheetah Fang 4
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 2.5m (25 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 25 Matching Spells
    Recourse: Greater Scarlet Cheetah Fang IV
    1: Cast: Scarlet Cheetah's Twincast IV once if Caster Priest Classes
    2: Increase Chance to Twincast by 100%
    3: Limit Effect: Skill Attack
    4: Limit Effect: Exclude Twincast Blocker
    5: Limit Max Level: 254 (lose 100% per level)
    6: Limit Type: Detrimental
    7: Limit Class: ALL

    [49536/49533] Scarlet Cheetah's Twincast IV
    Classes: RNG/254
    Skill: Melee
    Mana: 1
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Stacking: Scarlet Cheetah Fang 103
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 2.5m (25 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 5 Matching Spells
    2: Increase Chance to Twincast by 100%
    3: Limit Effect: Current HP
    4: Limit Effect: Exclude Twincast Blocker
    5: Limit Min Mana Cost: 10
    6: Limit Type: Exclude Combat Skills
    7: Limit Type: Detrimental

    If you are involved in raid make-up or strat development then https://www.raidloot.com/Spells.aspx is your friend.
  19. Thrillho Augur

    All monk group. All monk raid.

    Rotate deflection for tanking. Tank for 18 seconds, drop aggro, next monk picks it up. You need 27 monks to get full coverage before you're able to repeat the lineup. With a full crew of 54, you can now tank two full raid bosses.

    At a modest 300k DPS burn, your entire raid force is now pumping out 16.2mil DPS. Add in alliances, which are going to fire as soon as it's cast, and you're laughing.

    Next question please.
    Maedhros, Funk, Thoxsel and 6 others like this.
  20. Israfel Elder


    I agree that building around best performers is smart. The performance of the shaman is especially noteworthy because there is so much to do and when that player is balancing both healing and damage it can really add up.

    When it comes to rangers, I'd really like to know if anyone has crunched melee versus caster group. I suppose this is not only based on skill level and playstyle, but encounter as well.
    Arraden likes this.

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