I'd anguish in OOW far too easy?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by HoodenShuklak, Sep 1, 2019.

  1. HoodenShuklak Augur

    So when you got to gates and Tacvi there was at least some semblance of danger, but anguish is insanely trivial with the exception of mask clicking on the final fight.

    Having not been this far on modern tlp I can only imagine the traditional slow paced tlp gets an absolute death blow here. This content needs tweaking to make it actually feel like a premier raid...
  2. Wyre Wintermute Augur


    Just keep going. The pendulum swings both ways.

    Can't say much about LDoN raids aside from them not being very worthwhile.
    PoTime was easy cheesy. Rathe Council and Corinav were harder.
    Vex Thal was absolute cheese, sans maybe 1 fight.. Emperor Seru took more tactics.
    AoW was just a DPS and gear check... Vulak and the warders are a joke.
    Trakanon? laughable. Most of VP was more about not training yourself.
    CT, Inny, EoV? I think Bee Island was the biggest hassle. (Competition aside)

    CoA is not far too easy. Heck. Tacvi wasn't that hard. The Mastrugs wrecked people more than the events.

    Yar'Lir and Vishimitar starts the incline into more difficult content, albeit not a huge bar. Getting through Demi? that's even harder. DeathKnell? Mmm Razorthorne seems to be more challenging overall, though DK #2 is a serious annoyance. On to TSS, same deal.. some lesser events are more intense than the end zones. Lethar's Final Stand is much more difficult (script/event-wise) than Beltron. The FC side hits much harder (Though The fact that TSS unlocks Exalted crafted augs and Elegant cultural armor makes you OP'd before hitting raid content)

    And it just keeps going from there. Each expansion has its own flavor. Some bits are harder, some easier. The big thing with TLP's is.. EVERYTHING IS KNOWN. This isn't back when the content was new to everyone. You can search out most strats, most gear drops, named mobs, etc.. People go to the choice locations for the best bits.. because it has already been done for you.

    There's a reason why there are people and guilds who stick to live. It may not have that "classic" feel.. but it's the only place where you're going to discover new things, create new strats, etc..

    Look at the timelines for TLP's beating an expansion vs the timelines when they launched originally.

    It isn't that any of it is "too easy" it is that you already have the roadmaps laid out, GINA triggers, etc..
  3. Machen Augur

    It is every expansion. The difficulty from classic all the way on up to Phinny's current expansion is MUCH lower than it was five years ago. Too many incremental power increases.

    Last time through, on Fippy/Vulak, very few guilds were able to complete GoD in era. Now, every guild that makes even a half hearted attempt has no problem, across every server that has hit that era. OoW isn't any better or worse, everyone is still going to finish it. Same with DODH, same with TSS, same with SoF, all the way up. Heck, even Underfoot--which was only ever beaten in era by a handful of guilds across all servers ever, was beaten handily by virtually all comers on Phinny.

    If you want a challenging, difficult game, Everquest TLP is not it. Unfortunately.
  4. Machen Augur

    Nonsense. We had those things on Fippy, most guilds still couldn't handle the content post OoW.
  5. Bewts Augur

    While I don’t disagree with the trivial content observation for Anguish... careful what you wish for because I’d take a trivial Anguish over the annoyance they placed in Demi that was intended to be “hard”. In fact, until the next level cap raise... not much is difficult and areas of “difficulty level” are really just various levels of annoyance factors such as:

    Get an emote, run to find an NPC and say something.
    Maintain a bank of /say responses to sing along to emotes.
    Chase NPC around and say things in order to convict one; kill trash in the interim.
    Get ported around, cursed that causes drunkenness, and dodge a trap room; as a time event kill XX mobs across 3 floors.

    None of its hard, unless you’re severely under geared or maybe boxing multiple toons.
  6. Aziuno Augur

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying, except SoF.

    Two guilds didn't finish Kerafyrm, and others didn't finish it until month 3.

    Mobs in that Era jumped way up in raw DPS.
  7. Rasper Helpdesk The Original Helpdesk

    Another big thing we have now vs then... voice chat. Reaction times are so much faster to someone saying "Add wave up" or "Tank swap in 3... 2... 1" instead of typing it out, reading, etc.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  8. Guzzle Augur

    Considering Anguish can be 18 manned end to end, I'd say yes it's probably too easy but it's also a fun little zone. One of my favorite aestethically.
  9. Machen Augur

    We all had voice chat five years ago. Heck, good guilds had voice chat fifteen years ago.
  10. Rasper Helpdesk The Original Helpdesk

    Omens was 15 years ago. Back then nobody I knew used voice chat beyond the occasional few in a Skype call. Nothing as universal as Discord.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  11. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Voice chat programs 15 years ago were all garbage, and top guilds were not using them. It wasn't until around 12~ years ago that they actually started to be used, and maybe 10 years ago before they were widely used.
  12. Wyre Wintermute Augur

    Did you even read the rest of my post?

    I specifically called out Vishimitar and Yar'lir being the start of the turning point for content difficulty.

    “It isn't that any of it is "too easy" it is that you already have the roadmaps laid out, GINA triggers, etc..”

    Relates to the content in question by the OP. Audio Triggers weren't added until After DoDH launched. GINA wasn't around. Most people didn't use a VoIP client, some of the more "hardcore" guilds used TeamSpeak, but it wasn't the TeamSpeak as it is today. Allakhazam didn't have detailed information about the events, nor did any other site. OoW, in 2004, was not even as close to as easy as it is today. That's not counting any additional powercreep. Most guilds didn't even have Tacvi cleared before OoW launch. (Only 1 guild IIRC).

    People on TLP's are hitting OoW, geared up with GoD+Tacvi loot.. because everything is there on a silver platter. CoA gets steamrolled, because everything is known and the raids are better geared. DoN, being more of a side expansion, is more liking to the end-game era of level 65 than OMM is.

    I reject your anecdotal denial because of Fippy's alleged inability to complete content. It hasn't stopped other TLP's. The evidence favors that it was the population of Fippy, not the content or lack of available tools, that prevented progression.
    Shaantara and Xianzu_Monk_Tunare like this.
  13. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    0 guilds had it cleared. A few guilds were farming a lot of it, but no one cleared it until after OoW was released. Then it wasn't until sometime after OoW was beaten or maybe DoN was out (possibly even later) that they retuned GoD to 65 rather than 70.
  14. AtabishiRealThe New Member

    Speak for yourself. Voice chat programs have been widely used relatively speaking since before EQ was released and were not "garbage" for their time. Mplayer was out before EQ and roger wilco released shortly after, with teamspeak coming out a year or two later. I started using voice comms before EQ released back when playing quake 2 as it was mandatory for top teams. Most of the top 8 man's on Dark age of camelot (2001) also used voice comms. I used voice comms in EQ when I played 99-2001. Just because you personally didn't use voice comms in EQ or many EQ guilds didn't (sounds more like a problem of being behind the times to me) doesn't mean that voice comms weren't already a huge part of the gaming community and that no one in EQ was using it.
  15. Machen Augur

    It wasn't just Fippy. Also Vulak, Combine. Many of the players that played on those servers make up leadership in guilds that have had no issues with the content this time around.

    Heck, here's some anecdotal evidence. There's a certain guild that was on both Fippy and Phinny, that did not complete content in era for GoD or OoW on Fippy but had no problem at all on Phinny. As it happens, I was a raid leader for the guild during those eras both times around. The difference the second time around wasn't that the leadership was better or the players more experienced. The content is just way easier.

    Anyone who played at a high level on either previous generation of TLP's and now has played through this time around knows this. It really shouldn't even be a debate.
  16. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    What has changed to make it easier?
  17. Bewts Augur

    1. AOC delivering content to everyone at a whim translates to better geared players across the board.
    2. Changes to character skills translates to more DPS.
    3. The adoption of various tools has enabled people to both extensively develop their character sheets and to perform in raids more consistently (Gina triggers for example, all the various unapproved but used tools, even automation of certain elements for boxes to uniformly respond when needed).
    4. To a lesser extent, player experience and knowledge about expansions has translated into more capable players who understand mechanics. There are less and less people for which various expansions are not on their first rodeo which was not the case on prior TLP or in-era.
    5. Certain expansions have been tuned down significantly from their original conditions. I have a few guild mates who experienced many of these expansions in-era or in their first TLP iteration and a consistent comment I hear is “That bad pull would have wiped guilds years ago” or “No way we would have had a shot at beating Xyz with 36 people.”
  18. Accipiter Old Timer

    Ventrilo release in 2002. Teamspeak in 2001. I didn't use Teamspeak but did use Ventrilo. I don't remember any particular problem. /shrug
  19. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    Besides the QoL changes, the real difference is that everything on TLP servers is a re-run.

    It's like trying to solve a problem after already having solved it before. Or re-reading a mystery novel. Or watching an M. Night Shyamalan movie twice. Of course there's no challenge or surprise...

    EDIT: If it's a challenge you're looking for, LIVE servers are the place to be. I hear Mearatas is still quite challenging ;)
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and code-zero like this.
  20. Spayce Augur

    Maybe try the content without a full raid bursting at the seams?

    If GoD was too easy, I suggest trying it with raids consisting of ~20 folks and their boxes totaling 30-35 toons. It was a decent challenge beating Uqua with that number of raiders.

    Or...keep recruiting riff-raff and zerging content, then complaining that it's too easy.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.

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