I finally figured out why I don't like EQ post 70

I'm with OP. Much prefer the slower pace of the old game.

The differences are plain. 1. Everyone could go a couple rounds with a mob if a tank lost aggro. Even cloth classes could last two or three rounds (although most would not enjoy the experience ) 2. Groups could only handle mobs at a rate which allowed the cleric to regain sufficient mana to carry on. Mana regen was a huge constraint. 3. An add was not a big deal. Many classes could "ghetto mez" an add. A shaman would make an add trivial. 4. You could survive a train. Imagine that. Your group, tho happiest taking on one mob at a time, could handle a train of 3-5 mobs, just. You would be pushed and everyone would be OOM afterwards, but you could survive to tell the tale!

I will flat out say this was more fun than the current model, of non-tank classes being dead in 0.000001 seconds. In the modern game, you either do everything by the book every time, or you fail. In old EQ, if things went south, you got creative. You didn't just wait for the group to recover corpses and rez. And you could make sub-optimal groups. Rangers tanking! Paladins healing! Etc.

I've not played since House of Thule, btw. I can't speak for truly "modern" EQ. But in Underfoot, a single add wiped the group. Any non-tank player getting hit got one-rounded. (This is all in the group game, I didn't raid). Now of course raid geared players had a different experience, but I can only talk as a group-geared player who didn't raid.

We went from a slow-paced game where you could have exciting battles against someone else's train, and prevail! To a twitch game where if you didn't make the right play every time you just waited for a rez and tried again. Only one path to success in the modern game.

I think as EQ progressed and other group roles than the Trinity evolved, the focus of the game went from fighting multiple trivial mobs to fighting single difficult mobs.

My wizard usually tanks when my tank gets mezzed. Hasn't died from it yet. (just group geared, mostly happened in degmar and I mostly have a mix of cotf and tds gear)

mez sux .. was doing the 16th anniv PoW mission and those darned coercers mez .. one mezed me for like 30seconds+ ridiculous to get mezed for that long when trying to molo

That's certainly not the experience my groups had in UF, before I quit.

Anyone other than a tank, or raid geared melee, was dead in an instant. This applied to clerics, rogues, cloth casters... even non-discing tanks.

I mean, I was present many times when our group wiped because the tank ran out of defensive disc.

Not only could non-tanks not survive, non-discing tanks could not survive!

I also found it more fun when groups fought multiple weak mobs than one-at-a-time strong mobs. Gave more for everyone in the group to do. DPS could help cc, hybrids could splash heal, etc.

Now it's just DPS dpsing, clerics healing, tanks tanking. And we all beat on one mob until it dies. Boooooring!

Things have changed since UF

As code-zero said, it's definitely a lot different now. While I don't think you're the type of person who will enjoy live EQ it isn't uncommon for non tanks to get agro and take a few hits. Only nameds will decimate them. My wizzies pull agro and get summoned quite often and (without shield of fate) they can still take a few rounds. They'll survive for at least 5 - 7 seconds with a mob on them, long enough for the cleric to save their life and a tank to regain agro. Or long enough for them to fade, whichever happens first.

Also depends a lot on the zone too! In RoF content I wouldn't be surprised if a 105 Berserker or Beastlord could infact tank there with TBM group gear. Nameds would be tricky of course but as long as you got the AAs they should do pretty well. During the RoF days on my beastlord I could semi tank tier 2 from my own X-pac in group gear but the damage I took was very spiky and made my buttcheeks pucker up on just about every fight. That was with a mercenary cleric too

UF was a particularly tough expansion. A number of people I knew quit during UF because they basically hit a brick wall. The next expansion, HOT, was much easier.

It kind of oscillates: SoD was easy, UF was difficult, HOT was easy, VoA was somewhat more difficult, and so on. And then there are different difficulty tiers within each expansion. Tale the CotF HAs: there is a range of difficulty starting with the Gribble triplets.

VoA imho is harder than RoF, especially the later tiers of it. The mobs there just hit so friggen hard it's absolutely insane. Mobs in Valley of Lunanyn (the current hotzone) hit harder than mobs in Shard's Landing without a doubt. I can tank T2 RoF content (like Evantil, Breeding Grounds etc) without my tank dying but if I went to valley or Resplendent Temple my tank will get killed

Most of RoF is pretty well scaled in my experience. CoTF is a little bit harder than RoF up until T2 CoTF, Argin-Hiz and Tower of Rot take a massive jump in difficulty and the mobs health is pretty much doubled from other mobs of their level.

TDS is on par with T2 CoTF difficulty wise up until Arx Mentis and the only thing in Arx that's super annoying is mezzers (you got those in Caverns of Endless Song too).

As far as TBM goes I have limited experience in it thus far but it seems on par with TDS content in terms of difficulty.

a lvl 105 bst I know can tank named in RoF even without TBM gear especially now that the pet takes most the agro with bst only occasionally taking it TBM gear just makes it all the more easier , but now the bst can fight alongside his warder and get alot more dps in on named killing.. but even before those changes bst pets could tank named in ROF up thru T4 i believe .. as with all named there are a select few that no one can molo ..

A lifetime ago when I used to 3 box I had my beast pet tank just about everything there was. Had a druid, mage two heal mercs and a ranged dps merc and the only issues I ran into were when the healer mercs were to stupid to move out of melee range and they got ate by the mobs.

With those pet changes though, that wouldn't be an issue + I would have also been able to actually melee and be useful on my beastlord.

Wait, are you saying mobs don't automatically attack players in preference to pets, these days? I used to play a Bst as my main. If I was in melee range the mob would be hitting me, not my warder.

Has that really changed?

It indeed has, was patched in about a month or two ago. They also changed how mobs attack based on Root as well. I can't remember what they did about that though, someone else will know

As long as a pet has agro now it will be attacked over a player in melee range making it so you could literally have a mage pet, beast pet or any pet tank mobs for you in a group and still have melee be effective.

That is genuinely amazing. After all these years! I remember so many groups where I was completely useless as a Bst, not being able to do anything but slow and send the warder. Lol.

just make sure your pet taunt is on .. they fixed taunt on pets now so it works as intended.. you or a high dps toon can still pull agro from pets but usually not for long and if so thats what bst FD is for

It is definitely an amazing change. Takes a looooooooooooooooooooooot of getting used to as well =P

Well, it wasn't perfect, but at least you contributed with slow+warder DPS+DOTs+nukes. Now imagine a Rogue, a Monk or a tank with their magnificent range DPS in a pet group...

Wait, are you saying that a 105 tank (merc tank?) will get killed in Valley of Lunanyn? I don't have much experience with VoA, but one time my then-low-90s Monk moloed in Beasts' Domain, a T3 VoA zone, and it wasn't too bad.

Well have just read a little bit about it, courtesy of Google.

Is it true that they also nerfed pet tanking at the same time? Giving with one hand, taking away with the other, as we say

I agree. Heck, they should remove no drop on all servers. It is one of THE most annoying parts of EQ. Why do I have to destroy an older item when one of my lower alts would benefit from it.... At the very least make them heirloom.