I don't understand the max mana cost to Fade

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Shakara, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Shakara Elder

    By making an ability cost max mana the ability becomes worst as you attain more mana. Its seems very against every facet of a game that an ability would be worst the more you progress. I could understand if it was maximum BASE mana (as in your mana based on your level) but being able to use an ability less because you have better gear doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing something?
  2. Belexes Augur

  3. Brohg Augur

    It's been decided that gear advancement shouldn't change how various players can deploy these class utility abilities. In the same way that ... whatever - Fierce Eye or Quick Time isn't differentially deployable based on loot, now Fade isn't.
  4. Shakara Elder



    But it is. Quick Time and Fierce Eye don't have a longer CD as you get more gear but now fade does.
  5. Warpeace Augur

    So its hard to understand the price is fixed and accounts for inflation as player power also grows?

    I do think Bards got screwed in this change but a lot of players were abusing it 100%.
  6. Shakara Elder


    The price is not fixed though. A fixed price would be a flat cost that scaled as you leveled. This is a price where the ability doesn't grow in power but it costs more over time until.
  7. Warpeace Augur


    What exactly do you think having it be % based does?
  8. Shakara Elder



    Here ill break it down. if regen 10 mana a tick and I have a mana pool of 1k and I cast fade it will take 120 mana (at 12% per use) it will take 12 ticks for my mana regen to regen my mana. however once I do some raids and get some gear I might have 2k mana now my fades cost 240 mana and take 24 ticks to regen. So now even though I progressed my character I can only fade half as much. The ability is now worst than when I started.
  9. Brohg Augur

    Your mana regen does not remain static as your kit advances. Pretending it does serves no one.
    Metapsyche likes this.
  10. Metapsyche Augur

    By making it a % of your total mana, fade is always going to cost the player the exact same amount of their resources. They were clear that they didn’t love the idea of every class getting a fade in the first place. Be happy we all got to keep our fades. Realistically if the changes to fade were anything but an improvement for you, you were probably “abusing” it in the eyes of the devs. The only one I could see as a true nerf would be bards because fade had become a bards feign death for pulling (although it had been nerfed over the years). Truth is most of the game is pulled by tanks these days so I don’t see it being some big game quitting issue.
  11. code-zero Augur

    As I read it bard fade is going to be 2% .of mana.

    Currently fade costs a flat 4000 mana so comparing it to the 2% cost means that up to 200k mana there is no difference at all and if under 200k you will be coming out ahead.

    Currently on magelo the highest bard mana pools are in the high 240k ~ region so let's take the highest which is 248,439

    2% of that is 4967 mana per fade.

    so the reality is that the highest ranked bards in the game will expend less than 1k more mana per fade.

    By the time you've gotten out of the top 50 bards it's not enough to even notice.

    So, sure, bards will be hit a little but not enough to warrant stripping off armor.
    Metapsyche likes this.
  12. Metapsyche Augur

    But but... the sky is falling
  13. Shakara Elder

    Its possible that at high end expansions this change pans out completely different. I play mostly on the TLPs and going from SoL to PoP Bards get no increases to their mana regen but their mana pools get much larger. However buff or nerf the design of it feels off. I feel you could have accomplished the change much better by adding a debuff that makes each successive fade in a window of time cost more mana. Adds skill cap to the skill and nerfs people abusing it.
  14. Nennius Augur

    Isn't it always.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  15. MasterMagnus Augur

    Yes, as we have firmly established, yes it is.

    But just like Keith Richards falling out of a tree with a drink in his hand, landing on his feet and not spilling a drop.

    It can't keep going. And with every year that passes the end is MORE likely, rather than less.

    One day Keith won't make it. If you love him keep helping him out. But be aware, contrary to appearances, he is not immortal.
  16. svann Augur

    Only partially true. You have mana pool, and you have mana regen. If mana regen does not scale equally with mana pool then the better geared you get the longer a fade will take to recover from. So for the resource of time it is costing you more.

    Speaking for non-bards as the change wont affect bards very much.
  17. Metapsyche Augur

    Mana regen is more or less inconsequential at 110. There’s no amount of “stacking” mana regen that will make a noticeable change from what you get wearing TBL group gear for instance. I find the “but mana regen” argument a little silly... if you’re having to fade (outside of using it as a pulling tool), just sit down after and let fast OOC regen fill you back up. In combat, you basically JUST have a mana pool outside of mod rods, mana regain abilities (not regen), and paragons. I get the impression (because they told us so) that they’re hoping to move away from unlimited mana and to a consequential choice of what ability you’re going to use- and as such that ability should have a real affect on the game. That explains the 100% escape vs chance to fail along with a longer timer and tangible (%mana) cost. Granted at lower levels, Mana and HP regen are HUGE, but later in the game they’re pretty boring.
  18. Shakara Elder

    Sure at level 110 this may not be a huge issue at only %2 a cast but at lvl 65 at 12% this is a massive nerf from the flat 800 mana. Would it be so bad to open all 3 ranks to be available at 65 in the PoP era?
  19. Jhinx New Member

    900 mana would be 12% of a 7500 point mana pool.

    What sort of mana pools are people rocking at level 65 to make this a massive nerf?

    If you have a 9k mana pool (not sure people have mana pools that high on TLP at 65, but maybe it's common), then this change will cost you 180 more mana, but if you have a 5k mana pool it is saving you 300 mana per fade.

    Math isn't my strong suit, but is this not making the game better for lower geared bards, having zero effect on those around the 7.5k mana pool range, and having a negligible effect on better geared bards?
    code-zero likes this.
  20. Shakara Elder



    Ill check on my agnarr bard and look at it maybe you are right. However I still don't like that an ability scales down as you gear out. Also depending on when the subsequent ranks of the ability come out it could be rough.

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