Hunter achievment reward

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Elkar Headhunter, Sep 2, 2017.

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  1. segap Augur

    And that is the problem right there. If the dev team is needing to add outrageous rewards to prod people to do things, perhaps they should look at the actual issue -- people have no interest in doing those things. Perhaps they should spend their time adding things to the game that people actually want to do. Things people actually find fun. Make fun things to do, and people will do them without needing outrageous rewards. It's a game, make it entertaining and engaging.

    And that is the basis for my opposition to adding an enticing reward. It coerces people in to doing the tasks, giving feedback to the dev team that people do these things and rewards bad game design with a sense of participation in such tasks. Just because some people are willing to suffer through tedium so that they can show they're better than other people doesn't make it a good idea.
    Tinyfeet likes this.
  2. MyShadower Augur

    The illusion of a super powerful augment, more powerful than all other augments!

    You guys might be wearing him down, no mention of "reward" in this post.
  3. Stephsanity Elder

    I'd like a uber aug!
  4. kizant Augur

    Instead of an illusion for myself I want a vision spell that lets me see everyone else as like a dark elf or something. I'll take anything that keeps me from having to see cat people or drakkin and ideally it would include the annoying mounts (that's every mount).
  5. Randragon Augur

    Segap said:

    Obviously you haven't done the 'new-older' hunter achievements if you think it's that easy in some zones. The killing of the mobs might be easy but the time sink and figuring out some of the old world spawns took quite a lot of input from multiple players.

    Obviously you don't think its fun. Fair enough. But your opinion is just that, your opinion.

    I would rather have the hunters achievements completion be a container that you can take your old epics and meld that into a progressive augment. Make it power up over a few expansions based on the future hunter achievements. But there again, that's my opinion.

    I know some epics are still somewhat useful. But maybe the augment can take on the characteristics of the epic in some way shape or form.

    Then if you want your old epics back you can redo the quest if you miss them or wish to put them on the wall in your home.
  6. Forcallen Augur

  7. Orbital101 Augur

    Why do people that voted no (so to speak) and opted for a fluff reward even care what they add. If not doing it for something useful you wont be doing it for something useless right?
  8. MyShadower Augur

    I'm pretty sure we can all agree the difficulty/challenge of things like the Artisan's Prize and the old hunter stuff is only difficult/challenging if you fly blind and figure it out yourself or you are part of the group that boldly goes so to speak.

    The entire game is like this. Once the information is out there and you decide to use it...the only challenge is using the information correctly. After that, it is all busy work. Sure killing mobs with zero effort and hoping the RNG is on your side is less difficult/challenging than killing red cons in a 105 zone hoping for the same thing...but the busy work of it is equatable. You really have to push or play randomly to create risk.

    Heading west used to be a life threatening endeavor filled with uncertainty. Now there are roads and cars that can drive you there near autonomously, GPS to guide you, road signs to follow (if you really want to live on the edge), places to eat, sleep, bathrooms, etc, etc.
  9. MyShadower Augur

    I'd vote against the augment and illusions. I still like the tracking idea. Something unique that fits with the task.
  10. Spellfire Elder

    If there is a reward, I think this is the best solution. Evolving aug, increasing in power according to expansions completed, seems like a nice reward for Hunter Achievements.

    We already have a lot of illusions to chose from; do we need another one? Tracking idea looks interesting but perhaps it is not good enough for classes that can track already.
  11. Rorce Augur

    I'm not against a reward if they take a look at the ridiculously long and rare respawns, and exclude raid events (even if 20 expansions old) from being required. No matter how much work you're willing to put in, if you aren't able to spend all day at your computer you're never going to get many of those.
  12. ~Mills~ Augur

    Its a nice idea but highly unlikely they hand out track to everyone even in some limited form. But yeah if they did I would be on board.

    On a side note how about they look into getting archaeologist automated antiquity analyzer to work on doors, currently it picks locks but you need a target and most doors are not target-able.
  13. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    My concern is not that it's going back to gray content, is easy or hard, may be very time consuming, and some people think it's "boring". My concern is that people *can*, with the help of friends, complete it sitting in the guild hall/lobby/wherever. That is the reason I *personally* lean towards a "fluff" reward. Not that some people dislike and have strong opinions (including treats) having to go back and do the old content to get a theoretical reward.

    I do believe that allowing other people to join a group/raid and get credit when not in the same zone has benefits as well, it does bring guilds, groups, and friends together, if only briefly. It *can* speed it up the completion of the achievements if guilds coordinate together, with groups/individuals killing in different zones, spreading the "work" around (I actually like this). I do dislike it when someone makes NO contribution, but it's not for me to decide how guilds/friends divvy up the effort.

    This "not up to me" lean me to a "high value" reward, while the people that really do nothing and get it lean me to the "fluff" reward.

    Also on another comment that I'm not quoting. I'm conversing directly about the title of this thread. that includes "Hunter's achievement". NOT Conquerers (raids). So yes, this would NOT include raids. That's a separate conversation.

    (And here is my standard disclaimer of this being a conversation and not a promise of any particular action on this topic)
    Ishtass likes this.
  14. Kellan New Member

    There were large numbers of players who chose not to ever do any tradeskills at all until the Artisan's Prize was introduced and then increased in power significantly. Some players whined about how much effort it would take to do all the work that other players had already done in order to "catch up" to them, but the devs gave us the reward for all that work anyway. I think Ngreth should do the same thing here -- and put in a large Hunter reward for those players who are willing to put in the large amount of effort required to achieve it.

    One selling point of a scaling aug that begins with the original EQ zones, and increases with each expansion Hunter you complete, is that it allows new servers the opportunity to participate and gives them more to do. In particular, the LDoN-frozen progression server will need more things to do to maintain the population for a longer term. The stats on such an aug can be set to be the best aug through that era, without making it game-breaking for that era. Creating such an aug would be a fine task for a summer intern in June 2018. By then, staff can have added in missing Hunters since the new expansion will be up and running before New Years (we hope). The work entailed for creating an illusion item that adds more illusions as you complete expansion Hunters seems to be at least as much work as creating a scaling aug, and is significantly less of a reward to the vast majority of players for so much time and effort. To add a single reward for having completed all the Hunters up to now leaves out all of the current progression servers (and any new servers that may come along) for years, if ever.

    The amount of time and effort that has to be expended to complete the Hunter for an expansion DURING the expansion's era is not overwhelming. With stat bonuses applied to finishing Hunter in EoK (and I presume future expansions), players will be completing all future Hunters anyway.if they are min/max types -- so no additional work will be required beyond what they already plan to do for future eras. Going back to do all the previous Hunters is definitely a huge undertaking, and a large number of players have done it (or are working on it now) just because it is something to do -- even without a tangible reward. However, I think adding such a reward as a scaling aug will motivate large numbers of players to go back and do the old Hunters exactly the way the Artisan's Prize motivated them to do tradeskills and the old PoP flagging.
  15. Sheex Augur

    I like the fluff reward idea - maybe a statless illusion click that cycles through one iconic illusion of each expansion that one has cheeves for all hunts in?

    Our guild essentially did this collectively by working together, running a hunt raid for large swaths of time, where people could afk when they were out/at work/whatever, and help when they were around. It was definitely a lot of work for a few people running the raids and doing invites (ugh ldon, ugh), and there we're definitely leeches who didn't help at all, but a lot chipped in where we could to get it done together. Really depends on the group of people; I got the impression talking to others (cough Bahdah) that they had raids of ~5 people literally doing 90% of it for their raid, and that sounded awful.
  16. Kellan New Member

    If this is a concern, then simply require toons to be in the same zone or the same dz as the mob being killed to get credit. This way, a dead raider will still get kill credit on a raid but outside raid instances people will not be able to sit in guild halls getting credit.
  17. Thrillho Augur

    That's how this should have been done in the first place. But, the cat's out of the bag already. Plenty of folks have already raided together to get significant portions of this done.
  18. ~Mills~ Augur

    I understand the bolded above but look at Artisans Prize. Even with only 300 TS its the best aug in game by miles. I can't explain how many alts now have this aug because you can essentially afk it. They get 1000's of cheap or free materials and sit a tradeskill box and autocombine. They get the seals made for them. The only part that involves semi doing something is pop flagging which really only requires the ability to zone.

    Most people are not afk'ing through this they are working together to accomplish it and most are still not done with it despite having raids of people helping. Its a massive undertaking to say the least in its current form. The people lobbying you to not make the reward an augment are simply tossing this woah is me everyone is afk killing these mobs in a day out as a semi reason to void them not wanting to do it because they know its a massive time sink of work and they can't or won't be bothered if they can help it.

    Their desire to not want to do it shouldnt void those that do think the serial augment reward is a just reward for the effort in my opinion. It stinks of if I can't have the toy then no one can.
  19. Thrillho Augur

    So drop the initial reward. Make it 10% of final instead of the current.

    The "we can do it here, so we should be able to do it anywhere" argument. Having one "afk" reward doesn't warrant a second.

    Not cheap now. Read the bazaar thread that was talking about the price of stuff. The artisan's prize has driven the price of TS items up significantly. Regardless, I'm still putting something towards it-either time for farming / combining, or plat (which I also put time towards). Autocombine is nice though. For leveling up the prize though, it doesn't work (except for mass subcombines).

    No argument here. I had most of mine made for me, and bought the rest. Still cost me a fortune (plat costs time, as mentioned previously).

    So an insignificant portion was put into a quest? Again, the "we can do it here, so we should be able to do it anywhere" argument.

    I don't know how many people are AFKing through it or not. I wouldn't doubt it is a significant number though.

    I'm no stranger to the effort tasks. Maxed out the Tear aug. Shawl 3.0. Working towards maxing the Artisan's Aug. Woe is not me - I'll put in my time. The way this was implemented was terrible and has been exploited and will continue to be exploited. It's too late to turn off the raid switch to "fix" the issue, since it will be punishing those who either are teaming up and putting forth an effort but haven't completed yet in the current raid format, or haven't started yet and will be doing the entire thing alone. It will take a collective 12x longer to get flagged if the switch was turned off (6 flagged at a time in a group vs. 72 at a time in raid).

    Keeping it turned off promotes the exploitation that has already been occurring. [See previous post for exploitation, unless it's been removed by a dev]. Just as you have generalized that there are people who don't want to put in the time, I can generalize and tell you there are people who would exploit it. But, my generalization isn't a generalization - I know one person in here who has exploited in the manner I mentioned earlier.
  20. MyShadower Augur

    What if I just let someone play my toon and they drag me to the zones, am I wrong too? If a mob is one-shotted, should only the killer get the check mark? What if the single shot was from a pet? What if I am the healer and did not heal or DPS because neither was needed? What if I watched video of the kill, could that count?

    Who here is suffering because someone got hunter achievements by being outside the zone(s)? Did any of you get a message that taunted you or degraded you? Did some item vanish from your possession? Is it because they were not in the zone and you did the hunting and did not realize they were not in the zone and you became outraged after finding out? Was a puppy kicked? Were the number of lolcats in existence reduced? What actually happened to you when these check marks were granted by proxy?

    Do we need an inquisition to root these people out? Do their hunter checks need to be a different color/shape/size? Are people who obtain seals for the Artisan's prize without making them winning by proxy? Do people that got their trade skills to 300 with auto-combine need an asterisk by their skill level and in their TS title(s)? Do we need to make all tasks only update when a player is in the zone actively participating in the task and this can be verified with multiple levels of verification?

    Or...can we just take a deep breath and be OK?
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