Wrong. Wrong .Wrong etc. A group geared tank destroys a tank merc. They need to be built, however. 5k aa well spent and a good healer/slower is all a group geared tank needs. Pretty much they need what they have always needed. Good healing. A good puller. A bit of CC when things go a bit wrong. Some slowing.Some dps to get it all done quick, fast and in a hurry when the nuclear option makes sense. Everyone is spoiled. Group tanks were never Gods. Even with spiffy raid gear they needed the companion classes to make it an easy day. If you want to be a good tank, get some good buddies.
No Time To Bleed is chopped liver? And why would you want them boosted to match something that you yourself say needs to be nerfed [more]? Pick one point or the other.
This guy gets it. A pet should not even begin to hold a candle to a player, especially a warrior, with the new discs. Magicians are not tanks, and never should have been. That's not the case. Then, either pets need a nerf or tanks need help. Going out on a limb and siding with Trasa... Maybe WAR/PAL/SHD ears should come with "Enhanced Player XVIII" focus or buffs, since you can't seem to grasp the idea OP threw out there with the proposed mitigation advantages.
You are confused. HA's scale in difficulty. The OP explicitly mentions the lv 100 version (lv 104 mobs in the final mission). If you start a HA mission with lv 95 chars you will get the appropriate lv 95 version of it.
You're really good at insiting knights get this disc, too, or that warriors are the only tanks... Knights dont get it. They also tank group content very frequently. Other than the damage interval nonsense and being lumped in with plate classes, warriors haven't been mentioned, except by you. Knights get a mitigation boost from challenge/demand that doesn't scale quite to the level of NTTB. You're trying so hard to pick out the words one person says wrong, that you're missing the greater point of their post. If you're not going to try to contribute, why even post?
They scale to the highest level person in the group. The second you add a level 100 to that mission, the trash will change levels infront of your eyes.
But their pets are. Good luck telling mages that their pets "never should have been" able to tank. Since the balance is broken in one place, let's break it everywhere?
Then give war/pal/shd caster dps? No? Okay. Stop ignoring one side of the argument. Point here is that it's not balanced. It's hard enough for a group tank. The Mage pet situation is just a bonus kick in the pants situation to player tanks. Pretty close to how hard clerics got hit with mercs imo. Thing is your mage pet can tank in an instance. /shrug Not to mention breaking stuff across the board has been the theme here lately. Merry nerf-mas to all and to all a good nerf.
You made a blanket statement that tanks didn't get help. Warriors are tanks, and they did get help in CotF, so I used NTTB as an example. Knights got help in SoF 6 months earlier. So don't add a lv 100 to your mission. Are you playing dumb or something? We are talking about mixed level groups now??
Weird. I have done a variety of CotF missions, nameds, and HAs with both group geared and merc tanks. As a druid, doing both healing and dps roles, the only time I have ever really noticed the difference in using a group tank vs a raid tank was the aggro management, for whatever reason. Have yet to come across content I couldn't heal a group tank on. Maybe I just am lucky.
What the hell does any of this have to do with dps?! Stop adding completely random and irrelevant 'points'. The OP complains about group geared tanks not being able to tank group content. Not about mage pets. Not about dps. And he is wrong. His problem is a bad group, not the lack of power of the tank classes.
I dont even.... YOU brought up the notion that starting a HA at level 95 would make any kind of difference. A group tank is still totally screwed. 95 or 100. Holy/Unholy guardian aren't exactly help. Sure they make swarming even easier for knights, But lately they've been unpredictably/prematurely dropping, if they activate at all, as well as a slew of other issues. Not to mention they don't stack up at 36%. While unlimited damage, outside of raids, tanking 1-2-3 mobs as a pal/sk has never really had a bigtime damage limit issue.
This is what you said: To which I replied that HA's scale and the OP explicitly mentioned lv 100 content. If you had problems doing them with a warrior and you think that 'a group tank is totally screwed' then I can only recommend a better group composition or better skilled group mates.
That is the stupidest, most illogical and preposterous idea of balance ever. Fortunately, EQ is not built on lopsided 'balance' ideas like that. There are 16 classes possessing different degrees of tanking, dps, healing, buffing, debuffing and cc powers. And since you are clearly out of arguments and sliding into personal attacks, I suspect this argument is over.
Please do explain why a magician pet should be superior to a group warrior's tanking, and why they should have superior dps to nearly every melee class in the game at the same time? Why does that seem okay and or balanced to you? Because to me - that is the most preposterous, illogical idea of balance ever.
I do not think that mage pet should be superior to a group warrior at tanking. Nor do mage pets have superior dps to 'nearly every melee class in game'. The former is unbalanced, the latter is simply not true, and neither is ok to me. Don't invent things, or provide quotes where I said any of that.
Their pets are part of their class as a whole. You'd be a fool to think I meant to say mage pets had better dps than melee classes. Obviously I meant mages did. You know. The magician class. Earlier, you mentioned that a level 95 mage pet should take things that a 96 warrior with 4500aa could not. You seemed perfectly fine with it earlier, as if it was to be expected or something. Does the mage hang back and do no dps? I sincerely hope not, or they'll be on the chopping block with OP's tank friends... They also severely out-damage that warrior with their spells, and a whole lot of melee classes when it comes to burning things down. Im not understanding why you are refusing to think critically. Come on now.
Your post could be read both ways. Should? Quote please. Stop twisting my words. I said that lv 95 (actually, lv 94) mage pet is designed to be able to tank lv 100 content while lv 96 warrior with 4500 aa is not. I didn't say I was fine with that. It's just a fact that the devs created it so powerful. I said that this thread is clearly not about mage pets. If you want to discuss mage pets - make another thread and see how long it stays open. The OP never mentioned mage pets. A lv 100 tank with 10k aa is just fine for lv 100 group content, unless the group is bad or the tank himself is. The fact that mage pet can tank it better in specific circumstances in no way means that pc tanks need more power.
Gets kinda old seeing "omg its just envy" every time someone brings up a legitimate concern...the concern here being that group mage pets basically annihilate group player tanks in all aspects of the word "tank". Their only downside is you can't have melee, that's ok -- last I checked, there were more casters now than anything else in game. Perfect, since group casters completely devastate any group melee player in the realm of dps. It's not really even a competition at this point. Now, the solution obviously isn't to nerf everything and everyone. It's a question "how can we fix group tanks without turning raid tanks into gods?" I don't have the answers here and suspect few do. -- NTTB was a giant leap in the right direction, I can't begin to explain how useful this disc is to ANY warrior. As for melee dps being inferior to caster...ideally they should: STOP TUNING MELEE AROUND MAX SUPPORT CONDITIONS (RF, Sham 2.0, FE, QT, Aria, etc). Give them the boosts they need but find a way to limit benefits during max burn conditions. Monks seem to be a pretty decent example of how this can and has worked
