How is boxing a grp of toons, a game design flaw?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Whulfgar, Mar 30, 2022.

  1. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You don't get the right to determine how other people play the game as long as it is within the rules of the game.
    Metanis likes this.
  2. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    And making lots of threads trying to dictate how people play the game and saying anyone who doesn't play it the way you want to is bad for the game isn't going to convince anyone to change.
  3. Strawberry Augur

    Your response makes no sense.
  4. Strawberry Augur

    Again, your response makes zero sense. You frankly do not read what I write.

    I have constantly said this is a problem with EQ, not with the players themselves.

    When people box, it is a response to problems with the game itself, usually the inability to group.
  5. Strawberry Augur

    Again, ridiculous reply, I said no such thing.
  6. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I seem to see a lot of posts from you in this thread about how boxing is bad because it keeps players from grouping with others and that we need to change it so that people will group more often. As it stands boxing is legal in EQ and there is no reason to keep making post after post trying to convince people that it is bad.
    Flatchy likes this.
  7. Strawberry Augur

    let's be clear about what my argument is

    1) I don't blame boxers that they box.

    2) Multiboxing is a response to problems within EQ. It is the fault of EQ and its developers, not the players who box.

    3) One of the main reasons people box is the inability to easily form groups

    4) Boxing itself worsens this situation and actively undermines the EQ community

    5) Boxing severely impacts single account owners, because mergers are prevented due to certain artificial caps, this limits the ability to find a "match".

    6) Developers actively undermine grouping because they create giant power gaps between players.

    7) My arguments are supported by TLP servers where boxing is discouraged and power gaps are limited, the community thrives”
  8. Flatchy Court Jester

    Because my regular friends play at the same rate as I do and its not a race to constantly keep fresh mobs running into camp. If you love to play that way great, I do not. Im almost 60 and one or two at a time is plenty enough for me. BTW im already max AA this expansion as many of you are.

    Hinan whines at times because he likes to have a ludicrous AA count but I veto him since I am pulling heh.
    Yinla and Angahran like this.
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Here you go again making claims that boxing is hurting EQ and how people should not be boxing. You seem to want people to play your way without boxing without even considering why they are boxing in the first place which might not have anything to do with the ability to form groups.
  10. Strawberry Augur

    It does, it undermines the EQ community. Boxing was not how the game was intended to be played.

    However, you said I want to dictate how EQ players play, which is false.

    I have no problem if EQ has servers where people can box, but as we have seen with TLP, if we want a thriving EQ community, EQ also needs servers where boxing is actively restricted.

    There are far too many people on regular servers who are stuck where they can not easily make groups and feel forced to box. These players, and there are many if we read the threads here, should be allowed to transfer freely to dedicated non-box servers where EQ developers support grouping, making sure players can play the game as intended, with other players.
  11. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I am saying your posts appear to be criticizing boxing and everyone who boxes with the constant attempts to show how boxing is bad for EQ. And saying how the game was intended to be played based on the design 23+ years ago is just ignoring that the game has evolved over time. The fact that they have true box servers that allow people to box but limited to 1 instance per computer goes to show that boxing is intended for the game now.
  12. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    It's not 1999 anymore. If you want the "1999 experience" TLP is for you. Those are the players that WANT it how it is. Quit trying to dictate to the rest of us how we should play. Oh, and I was playing multiple chars at once in 2000. I needed multiple computers to do it, but I was. Many others were as well. What YOU want isn't what everyone wants.
    Flatchy likes this.
  13. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Strawberry cannot make the claim that boxing was never intended.

    In 1999, the game was restricted by the technology available to it:

    56k Modem
    Early generation processors
    Early generation video cards
    Early generation software
    No F2P model

    Additionally, EQ has not enacted something on the order of WoW’s anti-box policy until truebox TLP which is for flavor rather than game design.
  14. Strawberry Augur

    I am very critical of boxing, I think it is really bad for EQ's community and actively undermines single-account-owners.

    But you will never see me attack players who box. Players box because they could not easily find groups, they can now group on their terms, go where they want, divide loot how they want, etc.

    There are also lots of people who box who would much rather play a single characters. No one is telling me that launching 6 characters before you can do anything, is a fun experience, it is not.

    The fact people box is the result of bad game design. If you spread out players over giant power gaps, if you make loot drop for 1 person instead of 6, if you lock zones behind flags, you actively undermine grouping.
  15. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    I have never played on a TLP server just look over that forums section often.

    Is it not a general consensus among the TLP community the "later" expansions is where the server populations start to fall off? "Later" starting after Planes of Power which is pretty early in EverQuest expansion history, by time and number.
  16. Strawberry Augur

    Another thing is, and some people will get upset with that argument, is that powerful raid gear in grouping zones contributes to power gaps and undermines grouping.

    These power gaps between players, greatly discourage grouping. You don't want to group with players who hold you back.

    The fact people of the same level, can be multiple times as powerful because they carry high-end raid gear, diminishes the pool of people who can group with each other in specific zones.

    I am not proposing an immediate solution, but I think to encourage grouping, raid gear needs to be toned down when engaging group mobs.
  17. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    People have listed very pragmatic reasons why they box:

    They have work or familial obligations.

    They play short sessions.

    They do not want to roll for loot.

    They have social phobias.

    They have had bad experiences in the past.

    They want to relax and not worry about what others think.

    They want a challenge.

    They want to play different classes.
  18. Truetotheblue Augur

    People still boxed back in the day anyway... It's just more prevalent and in your face now because you understand the game better, are older and more aware, and it's become more pervasive as the game has changed. As I said earlier, regardless of what the design intent is the players and community are the ones to take it in the direction it's gone. DPG hasn't mitigated that, nor do I really think they have much incentive to financially. What it's supposed to be or should be doesn't matter, we have what we have now because that's where we took it as a community.

    Also, people still box in WoW. But there was never a huge incentive to box prior to them blacklisting ISB. You could farm mats and that was the main complaint. Botting is a much, much bigger problem and they have not solved that yet. But WoW has a lot more solo doable content, and the important group content like raids or M+ was not something you would multibox in that game in any relevant fashion. Whereas EQ you can.
  19. Strawberry Augur

    You're right. Early TLP communities where boxing is restricted thrive, this diminishes over time.

    Power gaps between players become larger which makes it harder to find a group "match", people start to isolate in guilds, and more people start to box (TLP have discouraged boxing, they do not ban it).

    I am not a big fan of guilds either, not the way EQ does them, people tend to isolate in guilds. Guilds can be a great experience for some, a miserable experience for others.
  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Boxing is still allowed on those servers and plenty of people box during the early part of a TLP server. IT seems in general you don't like it when people play with a group of friends or box.