How is boxing a grp of toons, a game design flaw?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Whulfgar, Mar 30, 2022.

  1. Strawberry Augur

    Right, and there's solo content in most MMO for people who don't want to interact with others.

    The convoluted solution in EQ is to pay for multiple accounts to solo content, because at a high level soloing becomes near impossible for most classes.

    Again, these are design choices the EQ team has made, that I don't agree with.
  2. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    I would like to see the official post at some point.

    There is a lot of hearsay and rumors around TLP launch. People are excited. Someone says one thing and the rumor spreads like wildfire. It's quite possible someone like Dreamweaver threw out the 4,000-6,000 number out there to allay concerns.

    I am especially interested where you got the 2,000 number for Live servers. Though, Live servers never require a queue and /pickzones have been instituted. The point about hitting "caps" on Live servers (even after merge) is largely moot for this debate.

    Obviously, there are limits to hardware and software. But where a debate hinges on the numbers, their accuracy changes the assumptions and outlook. Furthermore, what capability does Darkpaw have to upgrade hardware and software (wider pool)?
  3. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    It was JChan.
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  4. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    So funny, you literally detailed how and why boxing impacts grouping.
  5. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    The idea of "server caps" is really reduced to people rushing to reserve names on TLP launch or Darkpaw deciding to create mega servers. Let's not kid ourselves that it has a large bearing on actual day-to-day gameplay.
  6. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    That wasn't why Aradune had bad queues for over a month.
  7. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    I played Aradune at launch. Queues were "bad" (>2 hours) for a week. I had no issues logging in after roughly 2 weeks. Maybe I was logging on during off-peak hours. It may be as much about login capacity than actual server capacity (churn). There's always a "burst" of activity at launch and a steady decline thereafter. Where would Darkpaw pay for a premium server only to see population decline by large percentages after about 1-2 months?
  8. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    The problems were bad enough JChan put out a lengthy post to explain what went wrong
  9. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    There is no mention of the "population caps" in the thread quoted. Instead, this is the relevant portion related to Aradune:

    It actually points to hardware issues broadly and not capacity issues. I was going to write how Live servers were affected by outages during this time. If anything, capacity is related to login servers where they will be stressed by the crush of players logging back in. (2020 also happened to be the peak of the pandemic).

    To be clear, I'm sure there are limits to hardware and software but JChan's post mentions a "cascade of problems" and a diagnostic focus.
  10. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I never said it doesn't make it harder for some to get a group. I am just disputing that it prevents people from getting groups at all which appears to be the claim here. There are plenty of people who are not boxing but they are only grouping with a small group of people and removing the ability to box won't change their small play group at all.
  11. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Man, it’s like you don’t even follow the logic within your own statements.
  12. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    The fact is and will remain that boxing doesn't prevent people from getting groups and we need to stop making false claims that it does.
  13. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    I’m dying. You’re hilarious.
  14. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You keep making a false assumption that the reason someone isn't getting a group is because someone is boxing and doesn't want to drop the box for the other person.
  15. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    It’s so ridiculous to even make that claim, lol. I box, and I don’t drop my boxes for guild-mates. I would 100% group with others again, if I couldn’t box or was restricted to a 2-box crew.
  16. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You are arguing for the removal of the ability to box because you refuse to drop a box for a guildmate? Seems like you just don't want to group with others or at least won't unless you are forced to do so.
  17. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Lol, no. When did I ever say remove boxing?

    Boxing has pros and cons, and one of the cons is reduced social interaction weakening the overall health of the game.
  18. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Forcing people to group is like walking into a bar and the hostess telling you that you must participate in a speed dating event to remain on the premises.

    We don't play EQ because it is a fantasy version of Tinder or Bumble. Some people need dating or social network apps to function, most people don't.
  19. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    That is what the arguments appear to be, boxing is bad we need to remove it. And it also should be pointed out just because you are not dropping boxes for other players doesn't mean that they can't get a group.
  20. Bernel Augur

    I don't see the arguments as being about removing boxing. I see the arguments more that boxing is a player created patch to deal with the issue of reduced population and lack of grouping. It's kind of like putting spackling over rotten wood. It makes the game look nice and seem viable, but underneath it's rotting away. Removing boxing at this point would mean the death of EQ. There's not enough of a population to support the game without boxing. Too many non-boxers have left. A few TLPs would be okay during the launch, but eventually they would die off.

    What I would like to see DB do is to find ways for people to enjoy the game with a solo/molo character. Make it so that boxing is something that people do because they like the mechanisms of boxing and find boxing fun. If you don't like boxing, no big deal, you can still play EQ just fine. You won't progress as fast as a 6-box crew, but that's the tradeoff. As it is now, when the solo/molo player hits the wall, their choices are things like Overseer, hoping for TAs, LFG for hours, quitting, etc. Find ways for those players to continue to enjoy EQ without having to resort to boxing. Lots of people love moloing. It seems like making it possible to molo longer would be something that many people would prefer over boxing. That doesn't mean boxing has to go away. Rather, find ways for the molo player to continue enjoying the game.
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