How is boxing a grp of toons, a game design flaw?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Whulfgar, Mar 30, 2022.

  1. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Describing reality is that the server is being boxed by only two players? And I stand by the fact that removing boxing won't help everyone get a group.
  2. Strawberry Augur

    The exact same thing happens at larger numbers. But I am not about to draw 400 squares.

    If you want proof of that, look at TLP with and without boxing.

    The chance someone finds a group are minuscule when a large part of the population boxes multiple characters and takes up a disproportionate part of account slots on population capped servers.

    There are other reasons, such as too many players spread out over too many levels, too many AA that should be consolidated causing power gaps, gear disparities, etc.

    But at the end of the day, the main reason people are not easily finding groups, is multiboxing, boxed characters that take a disproportionate part of population capped servers.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  3. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Do you really believe boxing doesn’t prevent people from grouping?

    Who is talking about removing boxing?
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  4. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Wait. EQ has “slots” and a “sever population cap”?

    Seriously, the only circumstance where population is capped is like the first week of a TLP launch.
    Skuz likes this.
  5. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You don't need to draw squares to make an argument and you should at least try to use reasonable numbers to make a point.
  6. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    What is a gurp?
  7. Strawberry Augur

    Yes they have. Server merges are based on what developers think a healthy population for a server is.

    -John lvl 60 plays on server A
    -Maria lvl 60 plays on server B

    If these servers were merged, they could form a group. But if boxed accounts start populating these servers en masse, which is now the case in EQ, the server will not be merged and John and Maria will not be able to find each other. Instead, they are stuck on servers populated full of boxed characters who not only won't group with them, but don't talk and undermine the social fabric of the game.
  8. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Yes, boxing doesn't prevent people from group though it does make it harder for some to get a group. There are plenty of preformed groups in the game that have fixed members or just group with guild members meaning boxing has no impact on those groups. In general I think it is more of the pickup group game has died and I don't blame that just on people boxing or using mercs.
  9. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Some of us agree that 'boxing' per se is not a big problem.

    Mathematical facts are still facts. When you talk of 'not meeting the cap'. You try and defeat the idea in a single stroke. You're talking about a mitigating factor, not a cancelling one.

    This is more an issue that grows organically over time, and erodes the 'social fabric' as was mentioned.

    The graphic was made simple to instantly illustrate a point.
    Skrab likes this.
  10. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    This sounds romantic but really strained. It’s not a cap but an assumption of dynamics.

    So you really want to remove boxing? Lol.
  11. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    So, you think everyone drops their boxes to add guild mates, friends, or strangers?
  12. Strawberry Augur

    I do not actually. But I do not think single account owners Maria and John should be forced to play on the same server as all the multiboxers where they can't find a group.

    I think these populations should be split.

    We have seen when you create TLP without boxing, how refreshing it felt for people to finally be able to group. In fact it is so successful that people demand boxing restrictions on TLP servers, even beyond the ones already implemented.
  13. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Great description as organic.

    Unfortunately, it’s a requirement because the dev team remains stubborn with design.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    This is a bogus argument because none of the Live servers are capping out, quite the opposite, so there is not only headroom for more actual players to join them there is plenty of headroom for more boxers.

    Boxing or not is not down to a single factor - there are dozens of factors, below are but a few that spring to mind.

    Server - is your server low population?
    Guild - is your guild active in EQ or mostly offline?
    Time - how much time a player has available each evening & how much they can play over a week on a regular basis.
    Schedule - does the player's "play window" mesh with a significant proportion of other players, if they play at non-primetime they will struggle to find groups.
    Disparity - gear & level not up to snuff? Good luck getting groups because the perception is you are going to be "a bad" right out the gate.
    Class - Tanks find groups easier than most because they are often teh most demanded class & Merc tanks suck goat, problem is that Tanks are the linchpin of any boxing set up so most Tanks are already boxing their own team so they never have to wait for a group. DPS are often over-subscribed, many DPS class players end up boxing out of the difficulty in finding a group that wants them.
  15. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    We already have truebox servers (until population declines). You want all servers to follow truebox rules? In other words, you want something akin to WoW’s anti-box policy? We already have choice so what exactly are you arguing? Forcing people to use a single account? Ban broadcasting software?
  16. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    There’s no anti-box policy in WoW. They’re anti-key broadcasting.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  17. Strawberry Augur

    It has nothing to do with "capping out", it has to do with the fact these caps are used to determine if a server should be merged or not.

    When half these servers have boxed characters running around, they do not fall below certain thresholds, and they are not merged. You end up with servers where the majority of accounts are simply boxed characters, greatly undermining single account owners from finding a so called "match" to group with.

    The merger of a server with another double the potential matches, but as long as these servers with boxed characters keep populating the server, a merges is not considered.
  18. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    This is literally the first time anyone has heard of server caps.

    Has a dev stated this somewhere? I’m open to learn about these “caps.”
  19. Strawberry Augur

    Btw, this is why you had these ridiculous arguments with developers a few years ago, where developers argued populations were not low enough to merge, even though plenty of single account owners demanded they be merged to find groups.

    When half your server are boxed characters, you create a very unhealthy server that is not conducive to spontaneous grouping situations.
    Skrab likes this.
  20. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    This is a good point that populations are artificially inflated and not indicative of a healthy server population.

    In your previous posts, I think you did a bit of a poor job explaining it with using the term server caps.
    Strawberry likes this.