How does your guild manage limited debuf slots?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Windance, May 12, 2021.

  1. Shredd Augur

    As a shaman I stopped placing any dots on the name and just focus dots on the adds. Only thing I drop on the name is slows. I feel that the add parse is more important for today's raids then what ever can be dealt on the name.
  2. Loratex The Ridiculous Necro

    Sounds like it’s still a poor design with all the blame being on us. Glad I don’t raid any more. The head hunting in itself is enough to make me never want to again.
    Fcseven XIII likes this.
  3. KrakenReality Augur

    Necros are only being discussed because they take up 12-16 slots to be fully functional and have priority. The whole necro discussion works in their favor. Necros are highly desired for raids, but you can’t have more than 3 or else they reduce the rest of your raids functionality.

    The main discussion point is that overall design of classes doesn’t fit with the raid limitations. Every class now has numerous spells that require debuff slots. So, people clamor for spell consolidation and other ideas to reduce the demand on debuff slots, which would probably take 350+ slots to allow a full raid to operate their characters to the design expectations.
    Jordis, Marton and menown like this.
  4. Zapsos Augur

    Wait - new client?
  5. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Yes. JChan mentioned it in her community address several months ago.
    Jordis likes this.
  6. Zapsos Augur

    Hot damn, I missed that! Thanks
    I_Love_My_Bandwidth likes this.
  7. Bigstomp Augur

    I realize they're a technical limitation on slots but it feels like they should either fix that limitation or not give us all these debuffs. Buff me/my group/my raid instead of debuffing the mob.
  8. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I don't think it was in a community address.

    In a twitch stream with former lead designer of EQ Shawn Lord - JChan mentioned that eventually EQ will have a 64 bit client but there was no firm timeline for it yet and she advised that anyone still using a 32 bit pc/os should be looking to move to 64 bit when they can (see youtube video linked at bottom of post at about 1h37m28s in)

    A 64 bit client (and back end) would allow the game to have a much larger debuff slot limit but that doesn't necessarily mean the designers would change it to something vastly larger, there may be performance issues associated with that for example.

    I_Love_My_Bandwidth likes this.
  9. Froglok Augur

    Since they have nerfed the crap out of Necro's and continue to do so (yet another nerf next patch)... the suggested "Necro" problem would seem to be self-rectifying (if they can't stack their same-line Level 111 DoT's with their Level 115 DoT's, they can't "hog" as many debuff slots as they used to).

    This isn't a Dev issue, it's a strategy issue.

    The 'answer' is 100% NOT for the Dev's to step in and 'easy button' a solution. No way are Dev's going to allow a significant increase in DPS by adding debuff slots on Raid Targets. Instead, they are more likely to nerf classes! Next thing you know... Bards, Shamans, Druids, etc. all get nerfed.

    Suddenly, overall Raid DPS has gone to pot... and that raid target you had on farm? Not anymore...

    Raids require strategy & cooperation among players to defeat the event. It isn't a matter of just attacking and casting. You have to do a level of figuring out what works best and what to do to defeat the target. If you feel Debuff slots are a concern, then it is just another part of the overall strategy that needs to be figured out.

    As suggested earlier.... forbid certain offensive spells. Or maybe allocate certain spells to specific Players (Necro #1 uses X, Necro #2 uses Y, etc.), if that is what you really feel needs to be done. If the DoT stacking is working, it's working. If certain DoT's that are being stacked (and 'hogging" space) are not as good as DoT's that other classes 'could' add to the pile (if not blocked), then make that a strategy point. Swap to DD spells to replace those DoT's you can't land and / or are not as beneficial as other DoT's.
    Fcseven XIII and Jordis like this.
  10. strongbus Augur

    while this is a good idea for necros our dd suck compared to other dd classes so there is a fine line as to where if we had to limit our dots it be more dps to just switch to another class.

    as stated above with the patch incoming its going limit each necro to round 14ish dots plus debuffs/allanice on raids. now there are some classes that have dots that do more then some of our lower dots. but the question is how many dots do you cut form necros before they become lower dps then say a wiz or mage with there dd
  11. Szilent Augur

    I think you have some very wrong idea about how necros work. I'm not sure what it is, but your complaints don't seem to match up with how EQ is played. Fersure it's not remotely true that "they have nerfed the crap out of Necro's[sic]"
  12. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Unless the spell history on eq resources is lying even after all the recent necro dot nerfs they are still doing more damage than before the revamp which means they should still be doing more dps per dot than they used to.
  13. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Current state of Necromancer is vastly more powerful than the Pre-Consolidation Necromancer & even after the Test Server changes it will still be much stronger, what the changes have this far meant is that DoT lines that were previously of low use or not used are now back in play - debuff slots are taken up by Necromancers just as much as before but with a slightly changed line up.

    Your complaining is entirely unjustified, and you should save your tears for the finale & rebalance that will come at the end of the process.
  14. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    Yes, asking Druids to not use NFW would indeed be ridiculous.

    Why comment on the matter with such incredulity when you openly admit you are not familiar with Modern EQ? Many other classes have DoTs that are as good or better than the weakest Necro DoTs, most Guilds (with any eye towards maximizing DPS potential) are not going to ban DoTs that warrant usage.

    They effectively reduced debuff slots by revamping every single DoT in the game. Bard DoTs are good now, and their secondary adps songs have been greatly diminished in efficacy over the years. Shamans have good DoTs, Druids have good DoTs, Enchanters have good DoTs, SKs/Rangers/Beasts all cast DoTs (to varying degrees of acceptability). Only now is there going to be a Necro consolidation that will actively reduce the number of DoTs a Necro is using (The previous effectively counteracted itself by making poor DoT lines relevant), but what does it matter when they've changed the meta of multiple other classes to encourage the use of DoTs, and added spells like Alliance/Covenant that despite short durations have high uptimes throughout a raid encounter when dealing with a relatively balanced raid force.

    It was always a terrible plan, it remains a terrible plan. Telling other classes to sandbag without just cause isn't the solution, nobody is blaming Necros lmao, but the reality is the class has it's deployment hard cap'd by design and that was always the case, it's just worse now.

    Beyond meritless
    Jordis, Skuz and Szilent like this.
  15. strongbus Augur

    So with all this I just come out and ask for high end raiders in here. even if we trim out all the useless debuffs and dots that are not worth it what is the max number of necros that can be on a raid before the debuff limit start really messing with their dps?
  16. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    We can generally accommodate 3 with assiduous debuff policing (Which generally requires a reminder for some stuff, like Cascade of Decay that I personally always forget to toggle off at raid start) without running into severe problems, that's not to say we don't still bounce the odd spell, but it's workable to a degree that nobody feels handicapped.
    Jordis likes this.
  17. KrakenReality Augur

    Side note, I know it’s been several years now but I can’t believe they implemented Alliance spells for each class knowing the debuff cap exists. Those spells are really raid only or coordinated box team only. You’re just not going to get 3-4 of the same class in a group.

    Ultimately, telling people they can’t play their character the way it’s designed just leads to “Enchanter Syndrome,” where the class is fun but the raids never make it fun to play. So, you get this perpetual cycling of enchanters for every raid guild.
    Jordis likes this.
  18. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Do you recall roughly when this was posted? I have been looking for it but haven't found it so far.
  19. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    If you scroll up in this thread it came from a stream that she took part in.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  20. Silu Elder

    We also typically run 3, but we are definitely bufflocking on most single target bosses. I think what is missing in this thread that people in our tier (not top 10 guilds) are looking for, is guidance from the higher tier guilds on the common list of debuffs that, say, SR or another top guild would ban on 'boss' mobs. The topic is coming up for us on Crusaders, where we need to eek out max DPS while managing debuff slots. There are a couple related threads over on EQFL, but nothing comprehensive.

    Melee Intimidations? Beastlord Roar of Thunder AA (blocks Necro Grip and SK Dire lines, but reduces bst aggro during burns)? All SK DoTs? Which druid debuffs? Which other debuffs? As a necro, we should likely drop Cascade of Decay of Rot to save 3 slots. That averaged 24k DPS for me over 5 raids the other night.

    We'll do some /inspectbuff dumps tonight to audit, but it would be good to get a sense of some things that should definitely go.