How does the dev team see SKs?

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Xanathol, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. Kaliko Augur

    Every warrior apparently wants to be a dps class now and be good at soloing now as opposed to being wanted in raids/groups. It might be possible as a raid warrior to molo nameds with a wiz merc on burn or even a cleric merc with good timing of defensives and abilities, it may take a while but hey its worth it...... but the warriors i've had sustain high dps are in TDS/TBM raid gear and it's running TBM missions where they are tanking 2-4 mobs at a time np with a 2hander or 1h/shield and merc on reactive, and this wasn't exactly a high dps group. Though typically tanks are always on top of farming and getting everything they need from nameds for their mains in the first few months of an expansion so I guess the question is why does a warrior still need to molo nameds this late in, is it the lack of groups/players because of TLP?
  2. Mayfaire Augur

    We do?

    Man, I'd be happy if they'd just let howl and warlord's grasp work again like they used to. And some better endurance regen.

    And put some new tradeskills recipes and items in the game, for the love of pete. :eek:
    Makavien likes this.
  3. Brohg Augur

    Hyper defensive lashing out much? lololol
  4. Gnomeland Augur

    I cannot believe this argument, in the end, came down to "Knights can ****ing molo! Warriors can't! Therefore Warriors must be twice the tank they are in every other area of the game!"

    Yeah, okay. Knights can molo. But Everquest is not a molo game. Everquest is a group/raid game. No class is getting through all the group/raid content molo. You cannot finish any expansion molo. You can do the group game with a box, provided you're skilled, but then we're talking about groups, and in groups, with the addition of a single heal class, Warriors become twice the tanks Knights were before the changes due to the fact that they had 35% defensive running all the time.

    How was that fair? That Knights get to beat Warriors in 15% of the game and Warriors get to beat Knights in 85% of the game? Now, at the minimum, we're talking about Knights being able to beat Warriors in both the molo and the group game, while Warriors still beat Knights in the raid game, which is the way it used to be before Elidroth's changes in 2014.

    But who knows, there's an argument it went too high and now Knights > Warriors in 100% of the game. In that case, Warriors have a cause to complain.

    But using molo as an example for why Warriors need to be the best? Guys, molo, while nice, is not what the game is about.
  5. Mistatk Augur

    I think you are missing the simple logic. Knights trade off being the best at tanking, for having a spell book. Now they are best at tanking AND have a spell book. This really cannot be too hard to grasp.
  6. Brohg Augur

    It's not about moloing, that's just an obvious way to illustrate the power knights had and continue to have after the mitigation gap was closed. And that's fine, that's cool. Just - what are warriors? Previously they were the support-neediest but toughest of the three tanks. Now they're the support-neediest tank, full stop.
    Makavien likes this.
  7. Vtull Augur


    Feel free to post when you can't raid (hell, even group) because a knight took over your primary function. Until then, you are just overreacting.
  8. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    I have no dog in this fight, but I want to see every class be unique, and not have their abilities and attributes absorbed by another. So, at the point you stated above, wouldn't it be too late? They would be leaving in mass amounts if it gets to that.
  9. Flatchy Court Jester

    They arent going no where. Just crying poor mouth as usual cuz someone else finally got their come uppance. Don't worry lil war your still gonna be number one on the line up! The world did not end.
  10. p2aa Augur

    I feel that when I read this

    and this
    We have reached the pinnacle of lack of honesty. I admit that it happens in this same thread, which is the best example of where knight have completly degraded the warrior class in all ways possible, doing exactly what they claim to not do.
    I could go back to this same thread to link you so many posts Xanathol has made to degrade warrior just to prove it.

    This is really hilarious.



    How cute, your first post on this board to post this.

    I just would like to add something : As you know, things don't stay in EQ permanently the same way.
    So you can go on claiming you have won or that devs follow your vision you never know when things change. I regret that devs have read all this and took it for granted, so that they gave SK Reaver Bargain first, then Def prof to knights. I thought they were more clever in testing things rather than reading full whinning stuff which had the following components :
    1) Downplaying knight real power
    2) Listing warriors abilities as overpowered without having a grasp at what they do
  11. Gnomeland Augur

    What I want to know is what practical benefits Knights actually got from not needing as much support as Warriors. It's fine to observe an area in which Knights had an advantage, but not fine to ignore how important that advantage was.

    In a standard group, all the Knight advantage of not needing as much support does is make heal classes over heal, and it came at the cost of Knights requiring extra attention, because a pull of 2-3 monsters could lead to them dying instantly. That's not an advantage, that's a draw back, and whenever I play a heal class, I'd much rather deal with the same amount of damage on the tank each round, than a tank who doesn't need any heals one round, and then suddenly drops to 20% the next.

    And Warriors still are the toughest tanks. Just not 50+% tougher.
  12. Warpeace Augur

    Go out and play. Warriors are still the toughest tank, stop fuming over this change and move on.

    Its all about the point of view really, it could easily still be:

    1) Downplaying Warrior real power
    2) Listing Knights abilities as overpowered without having a grasp at what they do

    Like Warriors don't leave a bunch of degrading post about Knights and how we should be happy to tank scraps, fill some other roll....yah have a nice day.
  13. Time Burner 2 Augur

    It seems as if you have your numbers backwards. Knights used to outshine warriors in solo, molo, group content, raid trash. Warriors used to outshine knights in raid boss tanking. How on earth are you thinking warriors own 85% of the game? Now, post patch, the one area warriors were preferred for (raid boss tanking) is becoming less distinct.
  14. Gnomeland Augur

    You're crazy, unless you have never played the game outside of raid characters. Before these changes, Warriors had a large advantage over Knights in groups. A group Knight had to chain heal to survive pulls of >1 on current content, and had to use every cool down to survive a rare. Group warriors by contrast could tank three monsters at a time without a problem and didn't even need to use Last Stand to tank a rare + his friend. The difference was actually getting worse because Warriors were receiving new defensive abilities that Knights did not receive while keeping the solid 35% reduction advantage they already had from Defensive Proficiency and internal ability. An example of this is Dichotomic Shielding - an ability ONLY Warriors received while Knights got abilities that did nothing for damage reduction, and so brought them back to the same issue of being killed way too fast by challenging monsters.

    The popular idea that Knights and Warriors could achieve the same effectiveness through different ways - ie reduction for Warriors, heals for Knights - was absolutely wrong, because it failed to take into account 1-2 round deaths and also over rated Knight heals. Tanks don't die because they aren't receiving enough heals every second. Tanks die because they get killed before heals land. Additional heals do not help with this, and yet additional heals is what both Knights got in TBM, making the situation worse and worse.

    The change was absolutely necessary unless your idea of balance = Knight tanks die in one round, Warrior tanks no problem.
  15. Flatchy Court Jester

    Hey Thanks for noticing! I don't usually waste my time here, other than when its a good juicy one, full of pissing and whining, sort of like this one. You can always find me over at EGN where the good SK there know me by name.

    I do know that things don't always stay the same in EQ but honestly I am surprised to see them throw us knights a bone finally and even out the playing field some. As I said earlier, no need to pout now, all we wish is to be a more reliable back up when the MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE are not there to save our lil hides.
  16. p2aa Augur

    That you still claim warriors are tougher than knights after this patch when they were made equal if not better than warriors shows how little credibility you have. Knights have the best mitigation tool for an amount to be determined during their 35 % mantle disc stacked with Def Prof 35 %. Better than warriors under 50 % defensive disc.
    I guess that knights could receive a 55 % mitigation disc for 3 min he would still try to demonstrate warriors are tougher tanks. Haha.
    Knights are 75 % warrior, not 100 % warrior, and this is what happens when you give same % mitigation stuff between classes. 35 % is overpowered. 15 % would have been in line and was reasonable.


    You got feedbacks of some other players (so not me) telling you that Knights were not one rounded against raid bosses before this patch. You just fall in
    1) Downplaying Knight real Power.
  17. p2aa Augur

    Welcome in this thread full of Knights whining and who have degraded warrior class in it over the 50 pages there is. One more or less won't change much I guess.
  18. p2aa Augur

    Well, to answer to the behaviour knights have had in this thread, the warriors have been :
    1) Honest on their real power and ability, contrary to some of you.
    2) Recognize that knights had a problem on tanking stuff, and proposed some thing to counterpart it, without it to in infringe on warrior MT Raid Boss role.
    For example, before devs gave u Def Prof, i asked that you got a 10 % Def Prof stuff at all time so that it solves your raid add tanking problem (stacks with Knight sedulity np)
  19. Warpeace Augur

    There in lies the problem some people want a fix and others wanted to give it a band aid. We still do not know what the Dev's intent really is for Knight tanking, beside the thin vailed statement they want knights to tank better...they didn't say if that's in the group game or raids, raid adds or main boss tanking. At the moment this really improves raid add tanking, Warriors are still going to be the better raid MT.

    For Warriors to come and tell the entire Knight community they are not allowed to tank specific mobs is absurd, that's the Devs job. To go even further as one of three Tank classes and say its your classes nitch is even worse, that says your class needs utility. If your notch is that thin then your class it truly in danger if they decide to ever scale back the game.

    The reality is until we can get a "What's the plan (vision)for Tanks over the next 12-18 months" we will never know and the non stop get out of my role / nitch complaining will continue. This is a major part of the problem we have as there never seems to be a actual plan layed out it just swings back and forth with no balance, design or concept except why they need to nerf one class or another before the next expansion starts.

    Perhaps the better solution is to completely remove stances from the game and dial back monster dps. I only see this making things worse for melee dps that have to be in range and when wild rampage goes off they get decimated.
    Thancra, Sheex and sojero like this.
  20. Chania New Member

    In the end, having one class as ultra necessary for raiding was a bad design. Some class interchangeability is healthier for the game in its present state. So this new line of thinking is here to stay, how you adapt to it is up to you. The way I see it, a Warriors position in the raiding game will still be unassailable. If that changes, I will join my voice to theirs until it is.