How does the dev team see SKs?

Happy to, but do I divide by two to account for the 0dps healer I need to keep me alive versus even trivial content like Gribbles & such?

edit: Started one up before heading to work. bunch of buffs, 2h stance vs combat dummy with Secare+18, ~15.6k

because the issue of self healing is totally relevant to the current fixation on relative dps and just wanting to get some realistic numbers to look at.

I wouldn't call it a derail since being able to comfortably out-DPS Warriors has been OP's crusade since the first post of this thread.

I was never saying it meant that for sustained all I said was most of our dps is from auto attack . But I kinda dont agree that stuff we can't use every fight should be considered sustained because you can't sustain it every fight fell strike and all that is burn abilities. Because of the refresh time.

okay well the nature of the conversation itself and arguing over fake numbers when we have actual parses posted (and actual parses possible) is stupid.

It's pretty (painfully) obvious that said troll's mom was indeed drinkin, because he does actual believe it.

yes lets insults ppls mothers that seems like the way to go...

also keep in mind that the parse brogh is conducting is full dps parse and we can not tank wile under that stance all out mitigation except our innate -1di shift is negted by our stance

/GU Combined: A tortured soul in 995s, 123969k @124592sdps --- #3 Sojero + pets 22293k@22405sdps (22405dps in 995s) --- <pet> Happybone 944k@948sdps (962dps in 981s)

pickup group Me ranger(guildee) wiz(random) druid(guildee lvl 97) monk(random) cleric(random)


Combined: A tortured soul on 5/27/2015

Sojero - 610
--- Baleful Rapacity - 2
--- Baleful Theft - 22
--- Banestrike - 7
--- Black Steel - 5
--- Blessing of Unity - 1
--- Blood of Bonemaw - 7
--- Bond of Bonemaw Rk. II - 22
--- Brell's Sacred Stone Balm - 45
--- Chattering Bones - 2
--- Circle of Power III - 1
--- Deceitful Blight - 1
--- Deceitful Deflection Rk. II - 80
--- Dire Declaration - 39
--- Dire Strangulation - 11
--- Encroaching Darkness - 2
--- Explosion of Hatred - 13
--- Explosion of Spite - 13
--- Fingers of Flame - 14
--- First Spire of the Reavers - 1
--- Gift of the Quick Spear - 1
--- Glyph of the Cataclysm - 1
--- Harm Touch - 1
--- Impose for Power - 3
--- Leechcurse Disc - 1
--- Leeching Embrace - 1
--- Lich Sting - 2
--- Mental Dread Strike II - 35
--- Mindless Hatred - 4
--- Necromantic Curse - 8
--- Plague of Holmein - 3
--- Ragged Bite of Agony - 23
--- Received Auspice of the Hunter - 1
--- Received Fists of Wu - 3
--- Reinforced Malaise - 1
--- Ronak's Spite III - 28
--- Shroud of the Doomscale Strike II - 24
--- Soul Carapace/Shield/Guard - 2
--- Spear of Vizat - 51
--- Stream of Hatred - 3
--- Terror of Narus Rk. II - 26
--- Touch of Lutzen - 33
--- Touch of the Cursed - 38
--- T'Vyl's Resolve - 2
--- Vicious Bite of Chaos - 22
--- Visage of Death - 2
--- Vizat's Skin - 1
--- Voice of Thule - 2

Produced by GamParse v1.0.5.0
That is pretty sustained for me in a decent group, only ranger for adps group, 2 quick gribbles done.

edited to add - I was tanking and had S&B equipped.

Sustained group dps while tanking is what we should be ahead of sks in if your not parsing that without burn discs then your not even adding the correct parse. Just like the sks if they are not posting group dps while tanking then they are focusing on the incorrect situation.

They should be ahead of us when not tanking and burning so I am not sure what them will do ?

Warriors should really have no problem with you guys out dpsing us during burns only when doing stuff you can sustain every fight.

I included my casts to show that all my burn stuff was used, most multiple times during that parse. I wont include the groups dps as I did not ask them if I could parse it, nor do I know many their situations, ie raid gear vs group gear, aa count etc.

I agree with this. I still disagree on the disc piece mainly because you can never get another class to show you with their discs cycled as fast as possible. If we could count on that, sure, but until then, you get varied parses all over the place because someone used something in one and not in the other.

As for 'discs', let's clarify something - I am not talking about a '3 hits for x damage 30 sec refresh combat ability' - I am talking things with a longer reuse, like 10, 15, 30+ minutes. I assumed everyone would use and account for the 'once or twice every XP mob' type 'discs', as those are sustainable each mob. I am talking average dps per xp mob, calculated over a number of mobs, which was posted earlier in this thread.

Not sure what your groups run, but in the conditions I have already outlined, mine have Warriors at 16k, Rangers 28-32k, Zerkers 35-38k, for example. That's using no burn abilities and on mobs where headshot, etc, don't fire. Go figure, that puts us right between Rangers and Warriors, and depending on how many DoTs we load up, closer to one or the other. The numbers will vary, I am sure, based on gear level and AA, but the gaps should be the same and proposed adjustments as well.

This thread is about dps and has already referenced actual parses - try to keep up.

Even if we removed Warriors defensive penalties for 2H prof and Offensive disc, I'd still have a problem with a hybrid-tank that's solo-playstyle-friendly being able to outperform the narrowly-specialized masters of armed combat in an armed combat role.

I just think it is dishonest to summarize that picking between War vs SK in EQ is about choosing a spot on the slider between tanking and DPS. When my friends ask me about which class they should play, that conversation looks nothing like the recent pages of this thread.

If you guys are looking for more dps through dots, good luck convincing the necros to give up some debuff slots on the mobs (that is if you have too many necros)

LOL then what would you tell them when they asked?

so if they ask about a pally they get to pick between tanking and healing
and an sk is tanking and ________, please fill in the blank.

You are hung up with this master or armed combat, isn't that the tanking part, or did you pick a war to dps? were you tricked?

Let me just give you a little hint, you removed yourself from this conversation of having a full and honest discourse because you bring a prejudice to it that you have now clearly stated, Even if a Dev came in here and said we are the dps tank (which Eli has said during AA IRC) you would still not accept it and fight against it.

I agree and would rather it be in the way of DD's, but I don't see that happening. My guild is lucky to have 2 necros but we can have up to 6-7 sk's. If we went a non dot route, that wouldn't be very necroesk.

My ranger friend is usually between 35-45k on non head shot mobs, he was in that group as well

My zerker usually sustains around 30kish but he is missing a ton of aa.

Ironically our dps goes up if the mobs live longer until we hit the 48-60 second mark, so TDS actually lets us dps higher for the most part, if you can tank without an entire spell bar devoted to survive ability. The mobs in my parse, the longest one lived 41 seconds, and most died in 20 or less. Only some pulls were multi pulls as we didnt have a AE group makeup so no sense in pulling more than one or 2 at a time.

Warriors was high melee dps and the best at tanking named and new content. He said you are dps centric not the dps tank. And sadly Elidroth as much as I like him is not the most knowledgeable developer for tank classes. Trust me took a lot of work to fix warriors. And is still a work in progress. He took away a class defining ability and it took 4 years to truly fix our hate generation. He wanted to take away our one trick pony defensive disc. Warriors are higher then 16 k usually in the 22kish range. When I am only using abilities I can use every fight and I am not boxing.

Shadowknights are Tanking / debuffing and dps with spells with more overall utility then any other tank.

[15:37] <@Elidroth> DPS is a reasonable direction
[15:37] <@Elidroth> DPS should be the SK's differentiation between other tanks

he didn't say we were the dps centric, he said dps is what should differentiate us from war and pal.

That to me means we should have higher dps, now it is up to him when, and that is why the thread was made was to have a conversation with him, even though that never happens outside of IRC.

We know he has some issues, as we all do, look at the rampage abilities thread, it was brought up that they were gonna be changed, then nothing fora very long time.

I like the fact that war are high melee dps, that's is fine, but that also doesn't mean we cannot surpass you with our spell dps. which takes more from the player for activation, and is harder to do when tanking.

I do agree you should have higher burn dps and dps when your not focusing on tanking but if you have higher dps all the time and all your utility there will be no reason to pick any other tanks.

Do you really believe that?

no reason to have wars in new and difficult content?

No reason to have pallies to heal and cure?

No reason to take whatever tank you can possibly find in the group game?

Right now SK is the only one that has no desire/role in the raid game.

That is seriously a weak statement and I would expect better from you