How does damage mitigation work?

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Mrjon3s, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. Mrjon3s Augur

    How does Combat Stability work with shielding and how does Combat Agility work with the dodge skills same with parry ripostes and shield blocks?
  2. Tearsin Rain Augur

    i'm going to give a brief summary of how combat works in EQ without going into a lot of the specific details and numbers... if you want all that, i can provide it.

    this is the foundational formula for how all combat in EQ works:

    DB = Damage Bonus, a static number assigned to every mob individually
    DI = Damage Interval, a static number assigned to every mob individually
    (1-20) = the element which randomizes how much damage you take.

    pretend a mob has a DB of 10 and a DI of 10. The mob's damage formula would be thus:
    giving us a damage spread of:
    10+10*(1) = 20
    10+10*(2) = 30
    10+10*(20) = 210

    Atk on the mob increases the chance of the (1-20) portion to be a high number (this value is set per mob)
    AC decreases the chance of the (1-20) portion to be a high number.
    the Shielding mod2 on gear reduces the DB portion of the formula by its cap of 35%
    Combat Agility and the Avoidance mod2 increase your chance of being 'missed'
    (conversely, the Accuracy rating on a mob decreases your chance of being 'missed')

    There's also a ton of level and stat modifiers and class specific functions that alter this basic formula in minor ways (DI rolls get a bonus when your level is much lower than your attacker, agility adds to your 'chance to be missed' up to 255 agility but not above, warriors innately get -1 DI to every hit, etc) but that's the core fundamentals of it.
    Guderian likes this.
  3. Tearsin Rain Augur

    to answer your question a little more specifically about those exact abilities (sorry, i fired off that previous post just before going to lunch, didn't quite get to it):

    Combat Stability increases your AC softcap (if you are unfamiliar with this concept, post so and i'll explain it)
    Shielding decreases the DB portion of the damage formula.
    so, they don't have anything to do with each other in a mechanical sense.

    When it comes to avoidance (as a catch-all term for any method by which you do not get hit) EQ works like this, and each ability is checked in this specific order:
    mob swings at you
    0. check to see if Block (if a monk, with the Block skill, NOT shield block) fired. if not,
    1. check to see if Riposte fired. if not,
    2. check to see if Parry fired. if not,
    3. check to see if Dodge fired. if not,
    4. check to see if Shield Block fired. if not,
    5. Check to see if the hit lands, or is a 'miss'

    Combat Agility increases your chances of being 'missed'.
    So, you can look at 'miss' as being your last line of defense against avoiding an attack, if you want, or you can just look at it as a cumulative part of several functions that reduce how often an attack lands on you.
    Guderian likes this.
  4. Cakeny Augur

    I'd like to know about softcaps myself.
  5. Tearsin Rain Augur

    detailed explanation here:

    short very simple explanation:
    as you add more AC to your toon (via armor with higher AC) all classes have a 'softcap', which is basically a point at which additional armor no longer gives the listed AC, instead giving a reduced number which is referred to 'post cap' AC, or 'softcap' AC.
    for example, using very simple numbers:
    let's say your AC softcap is 100, and your post-softcap AC is 50%
    you equip a 100ac BP, and a 50ac pair of legs.
    once you hit 100ac, all additional AC is reduced by 50%, making your legs actually give 25ac.
    you now have 125ac.

    we the player base don't know the precise math behind exactly how Atk vs AC works, so there's no way of determining exactly how much damage mitigation X amount of AC is worth - it's generally just 'moar is gud'.
  6. Cakeny Augur

    Shield ac ignores softcap, right?
  7. Tearsin Rain Augur

  8. roth Augur

    Not exactly. The actual mechanic is that a shield raises your AC softcap by the AC listed on the shield.
  9. Battleaxe Augur

  10. WarSheol Augur

    if not already mentioned its best to put your highest AC aug on your shield as well.:cool:
  11. Lighteningrod Augur

    When / how was it confirmed that Improved Block is separate from Improved Parry and checks prior to Riposte?

    I'm not being argumentative, rather honestly curious. I was out of EQ for about a year and a half and have been reading up on Parry > Riposte check order either being changed or incorrectly calculated by the Community; however, this is the first I've heard of Improved Block being a separate check given they share a foci (Do they still share a foci? No time to look into that at this immediate time).
  12. shiftie Augur

    More than likely b/c a monk can block during their riposte disc with a 2her. Which would mean block has to fire first b/c if riposte fired first you'd never encounter a block while the riposte disc was running. I could be wrong though, I've never tested it myself. Someone is welcome to correct me if that is the case.
  13. Lighteningrod Augur

    Shiftie's comment would make sense.

    To complete my previous thought, I had some time to look at current foci and it looks like the most recent Improved Parry / Block VII are still shared. Based upon my dated understanding, I would think Parry and Block would still check at the same step whatever it may be. I don't claim to know anything about Monks; however, I can't imagine they would be singled out as a class to have a separate evasion hierarchy.
  14. Tearsin Rain Augur

    they don't, and the focus effects have absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever.
    Improved parry/black does nothing more than increase your chance to parry/block. that's it.
    the priority order for combat checks is 100% irrelevant to that.

    also, what shiftie said is correct - we figured out the check order due to skill based immunity disciplines.
    when you use void dance, for example, which is 'every attack that hits your dodge check will be dodge' and you still see blocks and ripostes, you know that block and riposte fire before dodge.
    same principle using weaponshield and shield block to figure out the order in which these skills fire.
  15. fransisco Augur

    There is a misunderstanding out there that block is > other skills because it checks first and hence "fires more".

    Statistically, there is no difference. You see slightly more blocks because block gets the chance to fire first (so dodge only gets a chance if block fails). If you switched the order, you would see more dodges because it has the chance to go first. But they are both coded to fire x% of the time.
  16. roth Augur

    The original determination (done before Secrets of Faydwer added in the "special attack upon riposte" AA's that adjusted the skill check order) was Block/Parry, Riposte, Dodge, Shield Block, Hit/Miss.

    The SoF AA's modified that slightly. Riposte, Block/Parry, Dodge, Shield Block, Hit/Miss. Before getting Hunter's Return Kick, a ranger popping Weaponshield will NEVER Riposte, and will ONLY Parry. After getting the AA, the ranger starts to occasionally Riposte as well. The conclusion I draw from this is that the AA itself modifies the order in which the skills are checked.

    Personally, because no class has both Block and Parry, I find that questions about whether the order is Riposte, Block, Parry ... or Riposte, Parry, Block ... to be irrelevant.

    I should also note that I've no idea about the 2hb Staff Block that Monks and Int casters get. I would imagine that it would be checked at the end (either right before or right after Shield Block) but just like Block and Parry, since no class can meet the conditions for both Shield Block and Staff Block, questions about which one is actually checked first are irrelevant.
  17. Smak Augur

    What about

    Would that aug in a shield with furious bash 7 not be more effective in tanking, by holding aggro in a fight with additional 338dd procs on every lifetap or dd cast, as well as additional aggro from terror line of sk spells and procs from weapons similar to blade of carnage, as well as a chance for bashing in melee to proc aggro?

    is that all not better than simply 30 or more ac more on a shield?
  18. Lighteningrod Augur

    I dunno what you linked, it appears to be a generic page.

    However, it depends upon the situation.

    Is the Tank holding on for dear life that it don't get one rounded every single round. IMO, No.
    Is the Tank forcing DPS to throttle down on a much easier farm target. IMO, Yes.

    AC serves no purpose exceeds it's utility if the Tank is going to live through the encounter regardless.
  19. Smak Augur

    Sorry i fixed my link, the original was accidently the entire list of legacies loot cards.

    I ment the shield aug.

    But i am trying to locate a http://legendsofnorrath.station.son...rge/Bow-of-the-Vermillion-Dragon-Ornament.jpg

    So i can get the same effect without sacrificing the ac aug on shield.
  20. WarSheol Augur

    Honestly, I would never use that shield ornament with that low end timy proc, its more important to have an AC aug in the slot 7/8
    and in the current game a 55 proc over 2 ticks is useless think that spell was recomended level 50ish?

    if you want mitigation go with AC aug. Specialy if your a warrior. :cool: