How Devs Can Stop Kill Stealing with this Weird Trick

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Brontus, Sep 28, 2022.

  1. MmmmBop Wise Troll

    How about make a rule that you have to be within 50% of the levels of the mob to get exp / loot? Would that solve that problem?
  2. MmmmBop Wise Troll

    I disagree that it's a worse problem. I think it's a problem, but I think it's more fair that way than just a straight dps race. Heck, I mentioned a 6 box crew, but if someone was really trying to out dps (and this probably actually happens), what happens when they bring their 18 box raid to steal your mob? I'd gladly take my changes with initial aggro over the 18 boxers than getting into a dps race with them.
  3. MmmmBop Wise Troll

    How about Who ever tags the NPC first, gets the kill, so long as their group does at least 10% of the damage.

    I mean, if you can't do at least 10% before someone else does 90%, maybe you shouldn't get the credit. And if you have multiple groups all just swarming to one mob (which skews this proposal), well then I don't know what to say. If I was in that position, I'd just find another game to play.
  4. Iven Antonius Bayle

    Not a bad idea but it cannot prevent kill stealing fully and can even turn your mechanic against you.You already gave an example:
    Assuming that you have not attacked yet, when the other player appeared, he can easily do the first hit and then it is his/her mob and you might be the one who tries to kill steal.
  5. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]

    It would be nice if /picks didn't close while a named was engaged. Particularly when people don't choose to enter picks, but are redirected into them without warning.

    Literally zoned in, hit track, went to named, engaged, fought Luclin high HP mob down to 30%, zone closed.

    Kill stolen by the server.
    PatCleric likes this.
  6. Treiln Augur

    A few examples have been mentioned already

    1) quick debuff/ranged attack, instant ability to tag a mob as others move in and kill it and don’t get any credit.
    2) tag a mob and run it into a group and have groups abilities aggro said mob.
    3) Spamming abilities at a known spawn point to get the tag (happens a lot in WoW currently)

    That would affect people who clear lower level zones for tradeskill drops or quick cash drops

    It was a worse problem. Not a current problem now. But this goes back to my problem of being exploited by tagging a mob needed for key access points in the game. Now I can camp this spawn point with a mob that everyone needs and be the first one to tag it and keep it locked down. Now I’m allowed to charge players a fee in order for them to tag the mob and get the loot they need to progress in the game. At least with a DPS race I can bring friends/guildies in and DPS race them for the loot.

    So…we’re just gonna say screw half the classes in the game? Tough luck tanks and healers?
    code-zero likes this.
  7. Viper1 Augur

    Sounds like some people don't like playing a multiplayer game with limited resources that they have to compete for against other players.
  8. error Augur

    Then you just have people ninja tagging "your" named using 3rd party programs and scripts that can do it way faster than any legitimate player can. Not to mention it introduces additional ways to abuse the system such as pulling threat and dragging the mob off in order to reset it over and over until they get the tag in.

    DPS race is by far the fairest method that can be enforced without GM intervention.
    Brildon, Genoane and code-zero like this.
  9. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    DPS races is not a fair method.

    AB for years was plagued by 1 player who insisted on taking every named up in a zone regardless of other groups spawning and DPSing it. Pick up groups were unfairly losing named loot to this guy as pick up groups are never perfect unlike his BOT group. It got to the stage if this guy was in a zone when you got there you went somewhere else, if he arrived when you were killing there you left after the next spawn. Thankfully Daybreak did adventually see his actions as harassment.

    I'd prefer to see named tied to the group who killed the PHs, unless it has been up for 30 minutes the same as Judicator in PoWar.
    MmmmBop likes this.
  10. MmmmBop Wise Troll

    Interesting idea. The only thing I don't like about it is that sometimes when you get surprised by a named mob immediately spawning after PH dies is that you aren't always ready. That said, I do think it's the best solution yet in this thread and a small sacrifice to make (staying ready for possible named spawning). Only other comment is that I would cut the time to something like 5 minutes instead of 30 minutes.
  11. error Augur

    I said fairest, there's no solution that's going to be entirely fair depending on your viewpoint and definitely no fair method that can be systematically enforced via programming. Your group DPS racing some guy's boxes who are also standing at the spawn point is far more fair than your group losing the tag to some guy's single box sitting at the spawn point with a script running to instantly engage it.

    As far as locking to whoever killed the PH, you're just shifting the dps race onto a different mob. If the hypothetical kill stealer can snag the named he can just as easily kill steal a static PH. Also, you're introducing new problems for rares with multiple PHs, rares with large pathing areas, when whatever specific character the kill credit was given to leaves the group, when the group holding a camp changes, rares related to key/progression quests with actual lines of people waiting on them, rares during later expansions where groups are more just crawling through a zone doing progression quests rather than camping, etc...
    code-zero likes this.
  12. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    Thats a stupid example. Put some more points into INT from your guildmaster!
  13. Zunnoab Augur

    The Guild Wars 2 solution is interesting: there's no such thing as kill stealing, because everyone gets thier own credit.
  14. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]

    A complete rework of the aggro code that also eliminates the ability to train others are well would be nice; locking encounters to pullers groups/raids while also limiting how many mobs you can have aggro on, etc. etc. It would be a change comparable to no longer leaving gear on corpses.
  15. Flatchy Court Jester

    Sorry could not read this all. Yeah I would just go tag every mob in the zone and fd it off and let the exp roll in. Good plan.
    Treiln and code-zero like this.
  16. Windance Augur

    This just shifts the 'KS' problem around a little and would not really solve the problem. You'd have just as many people yelling 'KS' because this mechanic is just as easy to exploit.
    Joules_Bianchi and code-zero like this.
  17. Zunnoab Augur

    Let's not introduce junk like that please. The game without constant obvious artificial constraints is one thing that makes EQ unique. I'd rather not add that to the extreme overuse of immunity to mob movement abilities as one of the things terrible about modern EQ. I like the game but those constant constraints don't make the game more challenging and certainly not more fun.

    Also if they seriously condone blatant DPS race kill stealing now that's messed up. I remember seeing a GM banishing a guild from Ssraeshza for trying that garbage.

    I will say though, somewhere around ToV they added a new aggro mechanic in which pulled mobs can aggro others that never touched them. Proximity aggro used to be turned off for anyone not on the hate list. That makes training accidentally way easier now.
    Joules_Bianchi likes this.
  18. Svann2 The Magnificent

    When did that ever happen to you? Or is it just your imagination working OT presenting you with a hypothetical? The important thing is problems in actual practice, not what ifs.
  19. code-zero Augur

    IMHO the single biggest mistake made in the early days was inventing a play-nice-policy and attempting to enforce it when the actual game mechanic had no provision for camps and 50%+ 1 damage taking the kill. The game started as an open world competition between players and pretty much all the fixes presented could be exploited. I noticed that no one has brought up that having a fast connection with minimal lag would be a major factor in first to engage. A monk with fast connection and all setting down for minimal graphics could use Throw Stone and FD and take a significant amount of anything while you don't even realize anything happened at all
    Xyroff-cazic. likes this.
  20. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    So.. This is much how Vanguard worked (in group) and it did work pretty well. EQ does the same thing, basically but it is 51% instead of 10%.

    I don't recall a lot of KS attempts in VG.. except for the Arch Magus Hegnerian event. It was an open worlds, 4 hour respawn event. Then the phage would pop (1st NPC in the event encounter) there would be a dozen or so people trying to lock it to their group. Whoever brought the most druids basically won (think pre- HT nerf SK crews). That whole event was toxic AF when that change went through, before the lockouts and reduced respawn. It is much easier to pop off a couple abilities and ping a mob down to 90%, than it is to pull them to 49%.

    For non-nameds, the high hp lock to group was great. For a few specific named spawns.. it was trash.

    VG also had open world raid encounters. they followed a "first to engage" lock rule. I can tell you first hand.. any non-rooted, non-summon from 100% raid event that didn't just deploy the event script at full health.. it got kited. I kited several for countless total hours while the raid force gathered, buffed, and was ready to engage.. while another raid force had to just sit and watch me run around in circles with the mob. Not my proudest achievement.. but it was reported to the team MANY times that it needed to be changed. They did nothing.

    Ultimately, there is no "good" way to handle it without a 3rd party intervening. You change it from 51% to 10% and the tactics will simply change. You switch it to "first on aggro" and I promise you.. there will be serious griefing.. with 0 enforcement.

    The best thing is just to adjust the way you play and where you play. I can't out-DPS an automated group of 6. So I just vent and complain.. and move on.