Housing on TLPs

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Wawadin, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Yet another thread has devolved into Captain Video just firing off random nonsense, a dozen people contradicting him, and he just digs in deeper. Tale as old as time.

  2. Captain Video Augur

    Read my lips: It's been available as a full-featured tool on Live servers at level 1, with no expansion restriction, since 2012. Whatever "major overhaul" you think they did on a TLP server had the effect of locking it, not unlocking it. This was all Prathun's doing; he's not here to explain it, and neither you nor I were in his office to see what he did.
  3. Captain Video Augur

    When they make housing available in Classic, feel free to gloat all you want. Until then, the loot isn't random.
    Xyroff-cazic. likes this.
  4. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Considering Xtar came out with Underfoot in 2009 I would imagine it was FTP by then hence why a lvl 1 could use it "with no expansion restriction" because the expansion was unlocked and available to everyone.
  5. Demetri Augur

    Literally the opposite - the TLP tweak UNLOCKED it in a limited fashion. Again, for the I don't know how manyth time - Phinigel did not get it until Underfoot unlocked. We didn't have it and then they threw in a roadblock - the only change that happened was to add code to unlock it previous to the expansion lock that was on it.

    Yes, Live servers, that had Underfoot locked had the feature regardless of level or anything - but TLPs had the feature LOCKED ENTIRELY until Underfoot previous to the tweak.
  6. Captain Video Augur

    You're confusing "unlocked" with "granted ownership". Nothing was "unlocked" when F2P launched; the concept as we understand it on the modern TLPs didn't even exist in the code yet. Ownership was granted, and every player could see a list of the expansions they owned on Live servers, the list scrolled by in the launcher window. F2P changed expansion ownership for subscribed players as well; every account was gifted all expansions prior to the two most recent, whether subscribed or not.

    Expansion ownership has always been account-wide, and has always been the same for Live vs. TLP servers. Logging into any TLP server has always involved using the same launcher, and seeing the same list of owned expansions scrolling at the bottom of the window. This means all TLP players "own" Underfoot while their server is still in Classic. They "own" all the /claim items that came with the Underfoot expansion, and can see them in their /claim window in Classic. In theory, none of these can actually be claimed at that time, the player will get an out-of-era message instead; however, there have been a lot of slip-ups on this, and devs have had to go back and make various changes. They also "own" any QoL features that were once associated with a particular expansion. In order for something like xtar to >not< appear on a TLP in Classic, something had to be coded to prevent it, just as a bunch of somethings had to be coded to prevent players from using /claim to get out-of-era items.

    i have no idea what happened on the Phinny server. I was still a strictly Live player back then, and I was not following TLP developments closely. I do recall a lot of noise being made by a variety of players based on the assertion that the xtar window was OP in Classic, and I don't see how that could have gotten started if it never appeared in Classic until 2019.
  7. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    My goodness. I am really not sure why I bother. But here you go:

    May 2019 monthly update:

    *** Progression Servers ***

    - Progression servers that have not launched Underfoot now allow players at level 20 and higher to use the Extended Target Window.


    I'm sure you'll have some reason why your memory is more reliable than that.
    Demetri, Yinla and Wyre Wintermute like this.
  8. Captain Video Augur

    I'm well aware of what the patch notes say. It's not entirely correct as written. You can use the xtar window >NOW< on a TLP at level 1, and before Underfoot, you just don't get complete information. You have >ALWAYS< been able to use the xtar window on a TLP at level 1, and before Underfoot, you just didn't get complete information. Except I believe at some point you did get complete information, and Prathun then restricted it following complaints. You and I both know a lot of things Prathun did never made their way into the patch notes.
  9. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Stymie, Karreck, Demetri and 2 others like this.
  10. Captain Video Augur

    As one of my philosophy professors used to say: Logic is a b* sometimes.
  11. Zipe The Healer

    Captain Video is right on something, but I don't know if he is aware of that or just trolling or he is just right and noone understands him. I know, it's difficult for me to understand him too. Letme explain why he may be right on what he is saying:

    Before that 2019 patch that unlocked Extended target on TLP that weren't on UF, you could still use extended target but it was hidden. Extended Target have always been there but it was just Hidden from the UI. You could go into your eqclient.ini and literary set Xtarget commands and use them ingame but you couldn't see the actual interface but you could abuse this exploit to target things.

    For example, if you were roaming around and you aggroed Captain Video and you wanted to target it to kill him, and you Set a key bind for Target Extended Target 1, you could press that key bind and you would target Captain Video.

    And that's the entire reason why we have a bug that some ppl don't see Extended Target Commands on the Key Bind interface, because a bug from TLP that who knows why or how it's related but I'll just throw it there, that makes your client think that your Extended Target Keybinds should still be hidden.

    Go to this post if you want to help reporting this bug: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...rget-window-slot-key-bindings-missing.269063/

    TL;DR Extended Target have been always there but it was just hidden from the UI until Underfoot expansion, then by the 2019 patch they unhid it from Classic.
  12. Captain Video Augur

    This still works today at level 1.
  13. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Now you're just being pedantic. Granted Ownership vs Unlocked? The expansion and its features are locked until you own it. You can buy it for "in era" access or you can wait until they unlock/give it to you for free. In order for anything to not appear in classic they have to code it. Which is the point of TIME LOCKED PROGRESSION. They code it to be locked/inaccessible.
    Karreck and Demetri like this.
  14. Accipiter Old Timer

  15. Captain Video Augur

    Which is precisely the point I tried to make to the OP and other posters: You can't just flip a switch and make housing available in Classic; it's coded to be locked to HoT. The coding isn't trivial; there are fairly elaborate scripts that run on each TLP when each expansion unlocks. For some expansions they can take up to 10-15 minutes of real time to run, and each unlock script can comprise thousands of lines of code. (Zones need to be configured; NPCs need to be individually placed; NPCs are added to pre-existing zones; applicable loot tables need to be initialized; and etc. Oh, and there just happen to be quest NPCs in the housing zone too!) The whole sidebar about /xtar was brought up, not by me, to actually argue against this assertion. You people can't have it both ways.

    Plus, this whole discussion begs the question of why the devs would reverse several years of policy decisions intended to rigidly enforce the principle of game content remaining strictly in-era.
  16. Risiko Augur

    You do realize that those scripts you are referring to are database scripts right? The code isn't changing. Your client isn't changing. The server's code isn't changing.

    It's literally... JUST DATA.

    Data tells the server where mobs spawn, when they spawn, what loot tables they have available, etc.
    Data tells the server what zone lines connect to what zone lines.
    Data tells the server what quests are active, what npc uses them, what they reward, etc.
    Data tells the server what the pathing is for the mobs.
    Data .. you get the point by now I hope.

    The scripts take a long time to run because there is a lot of data involved in each expansion.

    That does NOT mean that all that data is necessary to make housing start working. It just means that some subset of those scripts have to be ran to make housing start working.

    And, please for the love of God, tell me you know that the code for making housing work on the game client is already there from day one because if you actually think the game client's exe is changed to add housing to the game when it comes out, I feel sorry for you. That's not how game development works.

    You can load up a Live server that has housing going, log out, and log in to a TLP server that doesn't have housing going yet. There is no change on the game client side. None nada nope.

    It's.... Just.... Data... On.... The... Server...(period).
    Demetri likes this.
  17. Demetri Augur

    Really? Because doing the command-line setting method, it literally didn't work for me pre-level 20 on Thornblade and Mischief...

    It's possible I was screwing up writing the macros, but I doubt it from the ZERO response I was getting. Instead of the typical "bad command" messages.