Hortulanus Cryolex in Overthere

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Yinla, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. kizant Augur

    It all started because you think you're justified in taking advantage of obviously misprinted coupons. You're example had the discount at like 99%. Now you're somehow trying to justify by desperately trying to re-frame the argument until you're 'right'. On top of all those negatives you listed you may want to talk to a professional about your narcissistic tendencies.
  2. Inca Lorekeeper

    Did you just confirm that you called me a thief and exploiter and bad person with bad work ethics? Did you just add to the list the insult that I am a 'narcissist'? Are you going to continue to insult me at every opportunity?
  3. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    In Denmark, customers are expected to respect it when a store annuls a purchase because of misprints in advertising. There are cases where being in "good faith"(that is, the misprinted price is within a reasonable price-range ) then the store must respect the miss-printed price.

    There was a case a few years back where a store miss printed the price(2$) for a laptop, where the customers where rightfully denied the purchase, as they couldn't with any reason expect the laptop to only cost 2$.
  4. kizant Augur

    Yes, I did add to the list. Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension too.
  5. Cicelee Augur

    The biggest issue with this, that I have yet to see mentioned, is the random guarantees VP key that is given for the mission. Being able to get one key piece every six hours as intended is perfectly fine. However being able to drop task before opening chest, along with that 1-2 minute window before you get kicked, allowed people to get basically a dozen key pieces an hour. Do this for an afternoon, and now you can theoretically key an entire group for VP by killing a trivial mob that dies within seconds.

    Outside of the actual exploit itself, that VP key piece is probably what prompted the developers to take down the NPC task giver until further notice...
  6. Sindaiann Augur

    This whole thread could of been avoided.

    Put the damn NPC back!!!
    Hiladdar likes this.
  7. Bamboompow Augur

    You mean fix the exploit problem and then put the npc back, correct?
  8. Axxius Augur

    Oh boy, this thread has deteriorated quickly. People are getting all 'Hurturanus' :D

    So if the NPC is back tomorrow (Dec 27) around noon PST, does that mean that ROI and CT will raid at midnight on Dec 31? :eek:
  9. Millianna Augur

    It’s DBG’s problem (they new this issue existed prior to launching the expansion). They need to fix it without punishing their player base.
    Hiladdar likes this.
  10. Bamboompow Augur

    No, there is some blame the player base has to take ownership of too. If players in beta knew this was an issue and did not report it, there is a whole bunch of blame for players to take ownership of. Plus, this is an issue now obviously because players themselves were taking advantage of it to start with.

    Its doubtful any of you really care about this getting fixed. You just want to make sure your raid schedule is unaffected and your competitors don't get one extra kill in on over you. That's the real gripe here, correct?
  11. Sindaiann Augur

    I personally had no idea this could be done in RoS until the NPC was gone, however this is the same thing people did in TBM for achievements on group missions (anashti lady of life, kill coffins, drop task and redo and dont kill coffins etc). This was bug reported and petitioned by myself and countless others and it's clear they did not care. They must care now because those missions have an Aug drop chance?

    Seems to me it should be easy to break the group task phrase and put the NPC back so people can still do the raid.

    That group mission isn't needed for anything except for VP key task pre-req/medallion chance/Aug chance. Medallions and augs can be done off their actual mobs so it literally hurts nothing.

    Leave the group mission broke until the devs fix the exploit part.

    I dunno seems like an easy compromise to me.
  12. Cleaver Augur

    You have to be able to just remove the keyword for the mission instead of removing the npc.
    Hiladdar likes this.
  13. Bamboompow Augur

    Why demonstrate a preference to raiders over group players? That reads to me "In order to placate raiders, we are going to leave broken content in game for everyone else".

    Funny part its the raiders who beta test the most. If this got by any of the player base in beta, it was you guys. Some of you are actually innocent but others knew of it. Yes, the dev team might have just not gotten around to it.... so that's the benefit of the doubt. That benefit of the doubt also means out of fairness to all players of the game in general, the content should be fixed. It would be very easy for it to just stay broken if the dev team caved to raid players just to shut you guys up and kicked the can down the road indefinitely.

    Any fix will still involve having to go into the code, even if just to keep raiders happy. If they go into the code, why not just fix it right?
  14. Zenn New Member

    First, if removing the NPC only impacted the group mission and not the raid request process, this issue would likely only be a page long with people bemoaning their ability to finish a mission and a few lost group missions coins. This is such a hot topic because it is completely screwing over the guild race for this expansion.

    Second, even IF the devs capable of fixing this issue do come to work this week and get this fixed and patched into the game (which I personally doubt as they are all on vacation drinking lots of nog ;) ), at this point in the guild race to finish the expansion, as of this morning we entered the next 4.5 day cycle since launch day, leave the NPC down (or at least the raid request portion down) until at least Saturday in the wee hours of the morning so all the guilds that are racing miss one raid cycle to keep the race fair.

    In a perfect world where the devs actually care about this game it is not rocket science to figure out how to add 4.5 days +1 hour per raid cycle since the severs came live and then announce and implement the patch/raid NPC up on that raid cycle tick. That way the racing guilds all get the yellow flag for the same length of time. If this gets fixed part way through a raid cycle such and only the leading guilds in the raid cycle miss the kill, then whoever then wins the race is winning a tainted race caused by the dev's screw up in poor group content design rather than by the any skill of their raid force. If that case, you might as well determine the top ranked guild by the RNG.

    Finally, a learning moment for the devs:

    In the future DO NOT use the same NPC for raid requests that is used for group mission requests, make two NPC's instead.
  15. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    This is Daybreaks way of making you all spend time with your families at Christmas!

    As for the race, it isn't over, it is postponed! The missing NPC won't change the outcome, just delay it. :)

    Eat, drink and be merry, it's Christmas!
  16. Bamboompow Augur

    Yes, having separate NPC's would be a good idea.

    But with all due respect, many of the rest of the people who pay for and play this game kinda don't give a rat's pink pimpled butt about the race. Whoopity friggen do. RoI wins it every year. Don't even need a magic 8 ball to predict that one. The sense of entitlement is overwhelming at the high end when most players just want the game to work right and for there to not be some blatant preferential treatment of one small subset of players over everyone else. Anyway, hopefully the dev team enjoyed their break away from this game. They probably can't wait to hear how their mistake ruined or at least sullied the race.
    Jumbur likes this.
  17. Sancus Augur

    It's probably pointless given the deterioration of this thread, but I would like to make a point about exploits. To be very clear, this is not about whatever exploit led to the removal of this NPC, but more of a response to the "ban all the cheaters" sentiment expressed by some in this thread.

    My main point is that, given how old and complex this game is, it's incredibly difficult to delineate between what is intended and what is an exploit. Furthermore, there are absolutely potential exploits that are reported but don't get fixed. Because of this, while some things are very clearly exploits, there are many that are far less black and white. If the developers really were going to ban people who "exploit," they'd need to be much clearer about what is intentional and fix what is not far more quickly.

    Some examples to illustrate this point (as vague as possible):

    There is an ability that a certain class has that blocks a certain harmful mechanic on a certain raid. That's pretty clearly unintended; nothing about the ability suggests it would completely block such a mechanic. However, it is one of said class's main survivability tools, meaning it's something that would normally be used to help them live through harmful mechanics. I PMed Dzarn and Absor about this back in March when I found out about it, and to my knowledge it hasn't been fixed. I do not use this ability in that raid, but it's pretty annoying to be disadvantaged because the devs don't care enough to fix it. I know people who do use it and I can't really blame them; it seems unreasonable to ask players to not use an important survivability ability because it's working better than intended. It's clearly an exploit, but would you really advocate for those players to be banned?

    Another example is a certain class that has a counter based ability. Only certain abilities use those counters, but one of the benefits applies to everything, regardless of whether or not it uses a counter. Is this intended? No, probably not. Is it an exploit to use abilities that don't use counters but get the benefit? By the strict definition of the word, probably in that it's an unintended use of game mechanics. That said, this is an ability that is paired with every burn, and it would make no sense to not use the other kinds of abilities that do benefit.

    Finally, there's a certain item you can give to pets. It significantly increases their damage, more than any other item I'm aware of. I know how it affects their damage, but I don't know if that effect is intentional or not. The effect should increase their damage, but I honestly don't know if the way it does is intentional. Would I be exploiting to use this item? If it is in fact unintentional, then I probably would be. However, I have no way of knowing how it should work, and I'm not going to not use it simply because there's a chance it isn't working right.

    Now, again, to be very clear, these examples are different than this mission. I don't know what the exploit was that caused them to take it down, but it was likely very obviously an exploit. That said, it's very easy to consider something an exploit in this game, but no reasonable person would go around banning everyone who used it. If this was a far better made game where the developer intent was clear and unintended mechanics weren't the norm, then there might be a reasonable case. But as it is, the developers would need to do a much better job of preventing and addressing what is unintended before people start getting banned for doing anything that could be considered an "exploit."

    On the topic of this actual thread, yeah, making the raid inaccessible screws over everyone in the progression race. Some might not care about it, but some of us do and make plans in advance so that we can raid on lockouts. Stuff happens, but the way this was handled - being removed right before a major holiday so it can't get fixed - is really poor form. If the exploit was with regards to the raid I'd understand, but, at least based on the MotD, it was due to an exploit with the group mission. The group mission should've been disabled with the raid left in place. It's really disheartening as someone who does enjoy the race to have developer incompetency ruin it.
  18. Bamboompow Augur

    Pet weapon is the WAR ROG and pure caster usable piercer. Has some gimmick clicky proc. I think that's it anyway.

    Banning people would be not worth the effort. Obviously if they do not have the time or resources to fix this immediately then why would anyone perceive they have the ability to wage some disciplinary witch hunt?

    The NPC removable might have been all they had time to do given the time crunch with the Holidays.They certainly could not just allow it to go unabated for 1-2 weeks.

    They could have done more, but maybe they also wanted to enjoy their time with their families. Go ahead and tell the dev team they have to miss time off on Christmas because the loot/progression race in a game suffered a breakdown. Real life or death type stuff there!

    You can perceive that as a slight to you or maybe it just is what it is.
  19. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Yay! exploit rumors!

    There are enough marketplace buffs, auras and potions to completely fill up your buff bar(that will not get overwritten), making you completely immune to every dot-mechanic ever!* Win any guild race, only 5000000 DBC per raid. :p

    Seriously though, If all those "ahem! undocumented features" became well-known and therefore fixed, then we might get one step closer to actual class-balance, and the end result would be a better game.

    *totally not verified
  20. Cleaver Augur

    Question. Why is it an issue now ? Almost every mission has worked this way for years. They didn't change/fix them so why is this one different ?
    Hiladdar likes this.