Holly quote.

Ha I completely forgot about that. I'm heading to bed got work tonight so maybe tomorrow.

1) They promised that they wanted people to come to an equitable solution OR ELSE. Was an equitable solution reached (hint 95% win rate tells you the answer here - yes, plenty has zero contention but even for the 20% or so contention occurs you've still got a 80-90% win rate - if that happened in Vegas you'd be getting investigated, asked to leave, and maybe roughed up) or did an OR ELSE happen?

2) Only because of your bizarre take on #1. Try to look at it from the point of view that sees things as inequitable if you still can't.

3) So when a politician pokes fun at the poor while simultaneously being involved in laws that make life harder for them, those statements don't make it seem more intentional?

PS - Care me to link your recent Rerolled nonsense over here to remove this facade you're putting on?

Your right, I guess that's my bad for not isboxing a mage army and jackassing my way through the content.

I'll bite!

1. There are other guilds getting raid targets, at a much slower clip than TL, but still getting them. If you look at 75% of our raids, we've been completely uncontested for Spawns. You say it's because noone wants to deal with us, I say its because people don't want to try. Our success rate might not be 95% if we saw every mob contested. The things that we've been contested on though, people do dumb things.
Apok wiping on Inny, and then training us(El of El).
RoI wiping to Naggy, twice in 3 days
(Dont remember guild) trying to move raid force on top of CT instead of pulling him, etc.

If these people didn't screw up, they may have had a better chance. Its like saying we have an 80% win rate playing blackjack when the other team is hitting on 18 every time.

2. Why should their be a clear shift? The development team clearly feels that instancing content is not for the betterment of the server. The only way to explain the inherent gap between say, TL and <Random guild_00> is casual vs hardcore. She could have said non-raiders vs Raiders, but then everyone crys that non-raiders are only non-raiders because of lack of instanced content. So, what other term than casual is there in this instance?

3. Politicians poke fun at people all the time, it happens. The difference here is, Holly isn't an elected official. She is the Executive Producer of Everquest as decided by the powers that be. She doesn't owe neither an apology or an explanation. Do I think she could haev been more tactful in her wording? Yes and No, but her point got across clearly, did it not?

Your right, I guess that's my bad for not isboxing a mage army and jackassing my way through the content.

My evidence is that I have seen him use this . What else do you want? He isn't the only person from your guild that does this, either. You know this, otherwise you people would do something about it.

Pretty sad the 'hardcore' folks are pretty dependent on this stuff to give them the edge. I thought being hardcore didn't involve cheating?

Another sad part is that it is widely accepted now, to the communities loss. Most people that play here do not do this stuff, but people like you come in, claim you're hardcore, but use these 3rd party programs to trivialize the game for you to put you on a whole different level. Not only that, you have rule lawyered and spinned out BS consistently and constantly on these forums to give yourselves the illusion of it being legal.

Except it's not - if you knew the history of these guilds they're largely quite experienced - its not a matter of them not having finesse it's a matter of pressure in most of those (non-training) cases. When pressured people tend to make worse decisions, it's a fact of psychology. I'm sure plenty of people make worse decisions in when to hit during Blackjack if a casino bouncer is standing right behind them talking into a headset about keeping an eye on shady behavior.

Is that what Frenzic latched onto with this one too? I meant when it comes to aiming for equitable solutions - players working things out amongst themselves (remember rotations had been specifically mentioned as a hope of theirs that most of us, me included got a laugh out of the absurdity of!), and bringing the hammer down if stuff wasn't shaping up to be equitable regarding raid content issues.

Again not holding her to a higher standard like a politician would be, just giving an example.

To repeat myself from earlier there's a reason why "Put your money where your mouth is" is a commonly understood phrase - because it's well understood that words have one meaning by themselves (like you and I, we both come across to people as far more aggressive than we truly are I'd imagine - I know its true for me, and from my read of you it's the same for you) but when you compound them with matching actions intent behind those words become a focus point on what the intent of those actions were.

It's hard to say you caused X/Y/Z person pain while you've been involved in decisions that caused their pain and you have insulted them. Either alone gives you an out - but together, it's hard to claim innocence on.

It's not to say she couldn't have taken a ridiculously bad misstep here - but we're talking the kind of level that if you saw a politician do it it would be running on MSNBC or FoxNEWS (depending on affiliation of the offender) on loop for the next month and a half.

How about this, since you clearly still speak on thing you have no idea about. Ask ANYONE that has ever been guilded with me(QUite a few people over these last 16 years) If i've ever used a 3rd Party Program to their knowledge. Don't respond back here until you find someone.

Since you won't be responding, i'll just say, ignorance is supposed to be blissful my friend, so stop being so angry.

I heard you used an Autofire macro program at one point! And even used Notepad.exe to keep in game notes before /notepad was added! (no snooping or anything if I'm right, just making a jest at how open-ended you made it)

Of course on the reverse, I'm sure you've benefited at some point from someone using at least something minor at some point. Plane of Earth rings were so stupid to monitor the status of if there was any competition for them without the Third Party stuff you were truly implying. Weeee - clearing a ring with ZERO rewards because the ring spawns even when the named for it won't.

Since when did I accuse you? I have no proof of that. Please re-read what I wrote so you can have a clear understanding.

I wish i had an autofire macro =/. I paid someone to level my druids(And shamans) skills for me, because i was way too lazy to do it haha.

I have, of course, benefitted from someone using them, but then again, most people have, and alot don't even realize it. I don't use them though, and i box 3 characters from time to time. The doom and gloom about their widespread use is simply that, doom and gloom.

Perhaps you should re-read what you wrote?

I am stating that people like you are the problem. This stuff happens openly and you guys widely accept it. Some basic reading comprehension would help out a lot here. You also left out my first paragraph.

First paragraph had nothing to do with you throwing accusations at me. You didn't say that it happens openly and we accept it. You said "People like you use these programs". Thats a direct accusation, no context clues needed.

Yet again, as I said, baseless accusations that you have concocted to stand some moral high ground as to why you're not getting raid bosses. My point is simple, prove it. Fraps these third party cheats([Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] is not a cheat, and is an accepted practice, if not looked upon favorably). Show us proof. If not, then i could just say,

Skum, you and your guild are the worst ever. I've seen you using /q to cheat the pickzone timer and ks low level groups for hotly contested items all the time. Seriously, when is your guild going to grow up and realize not getting one Charred Guardian Shield will be ok, seriously. Stop /q to break the pickzone timer!

Nod, I still feel crummy to this day that I was the one that took up that "duty" when it came to PoE personally. Guess that was kinda my turning point on my shift towards being whatever "casual" or "hardcore casual" or whatever label I'd earn these days instead of standard "hardcore" happened - felt like I had to do it, and really was my rock bottom when it came to game ethics personally.

That would be a great story, but I don't even have a guild with people in it. Try again.

You're not understanding what I am trying to say, I apologize, let me try again. You guys condone cheating. You have people running these 3rd party workarounds, hacks, or automation programs. You say 'Prove it', but many people in this community have already witnessed this, the proof is there.

And no, 3rd party programs are absolutely not looked at favorably, you are now just putting yourself deeper and deeper into a hole. Don't let this person's words fool you guys. Don't let these people try to euphemize or justify cheating in any way. Usage of this stuff is wrong.

If you've got evidence put up or shut up. And please make it evidence from this server, I'll agree there's bad precedent from Fippy, but this isn't Fippy anymore - heck as far as we know some of the people with the same names are just masquerading or vice versa. (Doubtful but still, it's good to forgive transgressions that are THAT old regardless - and being online, name theft is a possibility however unlikely)

Isn't it pretty clear right here?

Ive seen 3 TL using this too. I reported one of the 3 because the one was killing mobs without them aggroing haha! but heard nothing about it. I report anyone I see doing stuff like this.

Ive reported non TL as well just saying, but you guys know you cant do anything right a GM must see it being used to do anything. Thats a ridiculous standard for proof.

Instancing would solve all of this, we wouldnt care you guys could cheat all night and poopsock yourselves for all we would care, but holly thinks we all need ot own 20 accounts and use hacks to show our devotion, otherwise we are causals.

lol...what positive things have you done so far? in all seriousness I'd like a list