Here's a crazy idea...

So, this sounds a bit like, well, EQ2's concept. So it begs a question of, was - 1) EQ2 was too soon, or 2) did EQ2 get the formula wrong and EQ3 may be able to get it right?

I'm actually personally of the opinion that you have most of an EQ3's formula in Phin/Agnarr with the AoC's as an alternative to open world, /picks, and other modern enhancements. It seems like the original EQ concept of forced open world socialization (both raid & group) finally has enough enhancements for modern play (ie /picks and AoC alternatives).

ahh, move the timeline way into the future and make it scfi/magic. would love to see an iksar in a space suit holding a blaster. maybe the next mass effect.

i worked on wall street for 20+ years breathing life into an ancient system. most of the original was written in assembler but over time I/we replaced the code with C. noone was ever under the illusion that the old system could be used directly as the next generation of the Ticker Plant (see note below) and groups of specialized people needed to be involved to make the transition. so we kept it alive until a company bought us and move the customer base over to their product and shut the system down. in the end they took our customers, a lot of the IP, and programmers.

i would hope somehow the essence of EQ will survive somehow. something more than a minecraft or roblox . my gut also told me that EQN was going to end up as EQ FreeRealms, which would have been a fail. EQ's story is worth saving as we know, and there are many features in EQ1/2 that don't exist in any other MMO (and should). just shutting the games down would not be right IMO.

note:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_data

This is exactly what I was getting at. The Phinigel/Agnarr server rules seem like the best of all worlds. It is what everybody else in the industry has failed to emulate.

Yeah. I really love the balance Phinny has. Your open world is 100% there. You can go and do shenanigans there. Some guilds absolutely race and compete for content there. But everyone can at least get to attempt the raid and see all the content at their own pace once a week.

That's one of the things I really dislike about Pantheon. Brad doesn't actually play games, and is stuck in his design of open world only. We can have our cake and eat it too these days, and we should.

I mean, I think the odds of Pantheon actually releasing, and beyond that, having a notable player base, are kinda small, but if it does actually ever get to a released state there will be at least 2 guilds and they will crap on each other. It's a solved problem that they're reintroducing.

I do not think you have the slightest idea what you asking about.

They would have to change from 1 engine to another, meaning all the existing code would need to be changed, and thats not a tiny thing.
I think that probably would require around 100+ persons for around 12-18 months.

Then at same time, they would have to maintain the same code twice, because of changes to code in old and new versions.

Have 4 build systems for old, test, new, beta.

Convert all objects from 1 structure to another, run conversation of stored date to structure, continuously.

If we say a coder get 50-75k in average a year(now I have no idea of salaries, this a guess, thats like 15-20 mil alone.
Add to that officers for 150 persons, computers, licenses and more, that likely same amount. Thats around 40 mil.

And that is pure expenses, and people likely pay 100 a year, thats 400.000 subscriptions for 1 year.
I guess EQ got around 75-100k subscribers, thats income for like 2-4 years for this.

And there no guarantee it will give 1 new subscriber.

However, if there is nothing new in EQ for like 2 years, that will for sure ensure that more people likely to stop, think on how it is today, after expansion has been out for like 8 months, its boring.


Now something, and this is not for being rude.
Today the 2 biggest problems for EQ = Housing and problems with AB server.

This is my thought about housing, I think there has been change to the datastructure, and some bug has slipped
though the system, which is what I think is happening today.

Imagine that happening if EQ was changed to new engine. I seriously doubt that people would then remain playing EQ
if they had that problem with their characters for a long time.
IMO, changing engine on a 20 year old game like EQ, the risk would on a scale going from 1 to 5, where 5 is most dangerous, would be a 5.

And if the boss on DBG would show a loss of 20 mil a year for EQ, then he/should would be out of job.

I'd be surprised if EQ had 25k subscribers atm. Risiko also asked why Daybreak's parent company couldn't throw $50 million at a "new-same version of EQ" since he thinks they're so rich. So he knows what he's asking, he just has no concept of the magnitude behind his request. Just look through the guys posts on these forums, he just spit-balls things because he seems to enjoy posting.

I took 75-100k because of I think 17 servers * 4500 = that amount.

So if only 25k, then thats the income for the next 12-16 years.

You do realize that the live servers paid for the TLP servers, right ?

pretty sure he claimed to have a MBA in some thread heh

and now that role has been reversed

Ask yourself questions from a business perspective:

What is Columbus Nova? They are an "investment company", not a group of eccentric gamers with artsy ideas.

What does an investment company do? Investment companies invest money on behalf of their clients who, in return, share in the profits and losses.

Why did Columbus Nova buy SoE? To take in as much money as possible while putting out at little money as possible, thus maximizing their investment and making their clients happy.

As fans, we can daydream all day and night with crazy artsy fanboi ideas about investing millions into the Everquest franchise and Everquest 1 in particular, but that is not why Columbus Nova/Renova Group bought SoE.

Just try and relax and enjoy what we have now and may have in the coming years.

also if you want to know who is really at the top of the food chain when it comes to DBG you can google Viktor Vekselberg. He is the boss now - he is the owner of the Renova Group that owns Columbus Nova that owns DBG that owns Everquest.... maybe if you appeal to him directly we can get some of these fan dreams happening!

v.vekselberg@renova-group.ru

Good point, $200.00 per year huh? I just went through and totaled it and and since Agnarr opened in May I've spent $581.83 total. I guess that would get me 3 years worth of expansions then instead of my 3 months on Agnarr.

200 just in expansions that does not even include store transactions and memberships but I guess you read what you want to read. I personally spend closer to the 1k mark per year on this game and have spent well into the 2-3k mark when LON was around but that really does not matter. You spouted off saying people who play on live are mostly ftp and contribute basically nothing to this game when in reality the live player base has made the TLP servers possible. The difference between you and me is I appreciate both server bases as they both contribute to keeping this game around. If they are able to make money on the TLP base then that's a good thing as long as it keeps the train on the tracks and the old engine keeps on running.

Yeah. I totaled up my DBC expenses Since Agnarr opened for just one of my accounts (note I have multiples and spend on all of them), and it was over $150. Then we add in the subscription fee that is mandatory to play on TLP servers, and that comes to 4 x $15 = $60. So, my total spent on 1 account from May to August is $210.

Here's the thing though. I haven't bought an expansion in the past 2 years because I ONLY PLAY ON TLP SERVERS.

If they made TLP expansions, my total spent on 1 account would be $250 so far this year. And, yes. I ***WOULD*** buy the expansion if it was TLP content.

So, that means that DBG is leaving at least $40 on the table that I as a customer would be spending. And, that's just for 1 account. If we add in all of my accounts, that goes up greatly.

I would imagine that what we are talking about is true on average for the entirety of the TLP community.

Now here's where it gets interesting (at least to me).

TLP players on average will stop playing Everquest when their server reaches the end of the content that they care to play. That means that the yearly potential income from TLP players is dependent upon the TLP servers having the content that they prefer to play. In essence, there is a lifespan to that income. When it reaches the end of it's lifespan, the income goes away.

If there was TLP expansions created, DBG could potentially extend the lifespan of that income base instead of losing it.

So, there is the dilemma.

Should DBG bet on their Live server population continuing to buy expansion after expansion every year OR bet on their TLP server population sticking around by INSTEAD offering TLP expansions?

Either way, DBG already has the resources in place making a new expansion every year. The only change would be what they target their new expansion on; Live or TLP.

DBG's expenses do not change. Their target audience is what changes.

What I am arguing is that I believe that there is more potential return on investment with targeting the TLP community than there is for the Live community.

The forum trolls here can call me names and insult my intelligence all they want, but it does not change the fact that TLP is a very, very lucrative business model for DBG right now. Whether they choose to move their eggs to that basket or not is up to them.

Would it cause people to leave Everquest and be upset with DBG if they stopped making Live expansions and instead make TLP expansions? You bet it would. I'm just saying that in my opinion it they wouldn't lose as many people as they would gain from this change, and I believe they are going to lose most of those Live server customers to attrition anyway if they keep making Live expansions.

It's like a band aid. Rip it off.

You know people play on TLP servers because they like the old content, right?

I am part of "people play on TLP servers" you speak for above, and I can tell you that I play on TLP servers because I like the STYLE OF GAMEPLAY that is found in Everquest from Classic through Planes of Power.

I hear this all the time on every TLP server that comes around. People try to say it's just the nostalgia that brings people back. No it isn't. Not for everyone at least.

I could care less if I am killing the Frenzy or John Bob Frogman.

What I do care about is:

1. Open world dungeons with /pick and memorable camp spots rather than instance runs from point A to point B
2. Rare mobs that actually drop BiS or near BiS items
3. No dungeon run ticket system with a prize booth back in town!
4. Charmable mobs
5. Pulling that actually is meaningful to the game play
6. Gear that doesn't have 10+ stats on it that you have to use a spreadsheet to figure out what is worth putting on
7. Not having 30+ activateable Combat Abilities on 10+ different timers
8. Not having 30+ activateable Alternate Advancement abilities
9. Not having 5 hot bars full of icons and still having more abilities that you can't fit on them
10. Not having the vast majority of mobs summon, so you can actually kite them

There's more that can be added to this list of game play style that is VASTLY different when you compare the Classic-thru-PoP era to the Modern Live era.

The nostalgia only brings players back to TLP once.

The game play style is what brings them back time and time again to each new TLP server. I've played on every TLP server EQ has put out. Every single one. I didn't do it to kill Fippy over and over.

I did it because being able to own a camp with a well played enchanter is FUN.

There is nothing fun about hailing a NPC, getting a mission, entering an instance, killing mob 1 through mob 50 while running from point A to point B, exiting instance, and going back to the NPC to get the mission again. Nothing at all is fun about that, yet that is what modern Live Everquest is all about.

ps. Yes. I unignored you. So what.

Then get a kickstarter started. Raise the $50 million you wanted DBGs parent company to invest. Idk who in their right mind would invest in a game that draws 0 new players and retains the exact same playerbase they currently have.

Hmm, should we spend literally $0 and continue making money, or spend $50 million to maybe, if we are lucky, increase our current profits by like $100k/year. HMM tough choice.

But if you raise the money yourself I bet you could get someone to make your game for you .

Btw, I'm a big fan of you starting threads where even the devs bash you. Keep up the good work.

Since this is just one big wishlist. Here is the game I believe would be hugely successful.

EQ-Box - A single player Everquest experience

Forming a group - Similar to a game like Baldur's Gate you start with your main character then you can travel to various places in the world to invite others. Go to Erudin and add a Mage, Oggok for your Warrior, Felwith for a Cleric... etc. You would then control all 6 characters.

Combat - It's EQ, so nothing changes there. Could add a pause function like some games have or not.

Instances - Again, it's EQ. New dungeons could be created.

Guilds/Raids - With the current Merc system you can allow a player to recruit Mercs to a guild for large raids.

The game could have elements of Diablo as well, solo or co-op style play. Seasons could allow people who love the "speed run" style of play to compete. Hardcore mode could have perma death. Make all items no-drop.

For the PvP lovers, throw in elements of Dark Souls. Someone could invade your dungeon.

There is a lot that could be done with this.

Mid game expansions won't work. Their content will be overlooked by a majority of the player base and the effort not worth the return. In a game where it's all about high level raiding and things altered to get you to lvl 85+ ASAP, adding a nice lvl 20 zone or even lvl 50 zone will not be worth it. Most of the player base will burn through it in half an hour while taking months to create.

Personally, I would love small additions to the game like new zones in classic etc. but I accept and recognize the difficulty of the programming, art, and financial justification.

If new games come out with similar mechanics to more old school EQ in ways that are more palatable to the player base at large, we may see such expansions for EQ or EQ3. But for now, EQ remains an "old workhorse".