Headshot/Decap - You're kidding right?

Unless I'm mistaken there are no humanoids on the Steel Behemoth raid, so even if there had been rogues and rangers on that raid, they would have parsed 0 assassinations and headshots.

What was the total dps gained on those characters?

Eg let's say they were decapitating for 500k (I've no idea what it really was - you'll have to tell us that) then they did 24k and 28k dps respectively from decapitation alone. It's a hefty chunk, but it's still sustained dps rather than a one-shot wonder. Did that make the berserkers overpowered? Would it put them ahead of say mages, wizards, or necros for that fight?

I don't genuingly know the answer, as I haven't done any only raids in ages, however it is the correct way to be looking at it. Don't just say "Thats [sic] pretty crazy" without comparing it to what other dps classes can do. Rhetoric doesn't solve anything.

Agreed. It's illogical for one class to be able to decapitate anything with a head, but oddly only certain types of head can be shot at. Baffling logic!

Assassination doesn't specifically mention heads anywhere, so I've always felt it is more like a fatal stab to the heart, but again why would that only be humanoids, and not animals and other creatures?

Decap lands for 182K regular and 412K crit. 300K is a rough average given our crit rate. 300K every 20 seconds would work out to 15K dps from decap. On the parses I've done I've gained about 10K dps, but I'm not in the best raid gear. The biggest boost we could get would be from Bard's Fierce Eye to increase our proc rate.

I'm in favor of removing the humanoid restriction for Rangers and Rogues.

Maybe go half and half for rangers, the procs when in melee from the spells/aas whatever could have no restriction but the ranged ones still keep it. After all when ranged there is much less risk, so why not less reward.

The less reward is that it procs a lot less. There is no intelligent reason to nerf it further or not keep it basically equal. Regardless, headshot only working on humanoids, but not on anything else with a head while decapitation working on everything including things without heads was stupid from the beginning.

As a group geared berzerker I tested out decap while moloing mobs that were 7-8 levels below me and with continuous fighting I proc'ed less than 1 time per minute. There were occasional spikes of 2 times per minute, but more often were stretches of a couple of minutes with no proc. I wanted to run this experiment in a case of continuous fighting for a more accurate reflection. I can't really do that with mobs that are only 1 level below me as I would get ripped to shreds. If I survive, the merc will need to med, etc.

Same logic applies to monks kicking any mob no matter the level for almost a million damage and dainty daggers backstabbing stuff for triple digit damage no matter the level of the mob while a 2 handed weapon never gets any triple damage totals unless you die or the mob is dark blue or below?

That's one of the problems with mmo's: They can't figure out how make thief like content, so they just make em DPS and those little daggers end up hitting harder than a 2handers.

Thief in Ad&d were dps class with backstab. It's not only a matter of lack of theif content (even if i would love some). An assassin is a dps and can kill you easily in one hit in the heart or poisonning you, it makes sense to me. Even in real life you don't need an axe to be dangerous, a simple knife can make bad damage.

I loved AD&D Thief class, but if I had to choose right now between being stabbed with a dagger or struck with a two handed axe, I'd take my chances with the dagger.

If you were playing a DPS in classic AD&D then you were not playing the Thief right! A good thief never had to use his Backstab because he could get what he wanted and get out before ever being noticed.


But back on topic... I logged in my Ranger and got my autogrant and went out killing... I was pulling 4+ mobs at a time and HS'ing them before they could make it too me. I counted 20+ headshots in a row at 1 point. Every now and then I might go 1 minute between a HS but most of the mobs were taken down fast. If they lowered HS and made it worse.. then it deserved it.

Level of ranger, group/raid geared, how many AA and levels of HS, etc. etc.?

At 85, group/baz geared, 1kAA (Silver), HS12 (of 25), DEX 1173 (+93 heroic dex, or whatever it is), on humanoid grey con mobs w/Heartwood Bow, I'm getting maybe one proc a minute, sometimes two. Sometimes. Its kinda like a punch in the genitals, but being told its not going to hurt that much 'this time'.

If you were getting 20+ headshots in a row, I'd suggest buying a lottery ticket. And just letting the computer quick pick it for you, you know, to make it sporting.

Level 65...... im wearing defiant using the Leveling Bow that has 10% archery and not buffed with anything but self buffs. I have max HS for level and AA's with autogrant. I see no issue....

You mean HS worked on 20 mobs in a row, or 20 out of 20 arrows shot from your bow was a headshot? If the latter, let's see a log.

Edit: BTW - Prior to the nerf - HSing lizards at temple with a bow of the destroyer, it would be a rare feat to pull 4 lizards and drop them all before any of them reached me, without using blusterbolt or vinelash. And I never saw more than 3 consecutive headshots in nearly a year of HS soloing. In fact, I only ever noticed 2 back to back. With the old code, a level 65 would have a far lesser proc rate than a 95+ ranger. I find what you're saying very difficult to believe.

mobs in a row. most the mobs were grey con.. I had 1 green con... I was just clearing things for fables and was laughing at all the HS's I was doing.

Ok. If you were hunting greys and greens post autogrant, you were probably getting as many killing blows (different AA) than you were getting headshots, too.

If those were just headshots, I call "Shenanigans!".

if rangers are so adamant that humanoid be removed then i suggest lowering the amount of damage to less than a decap and also removing any ability to modify the damage, same as decap. i mean after all logic dictates a two handed axe is gonna do more damage than an arrow..

It's a fatal bow shot. What's the difference in shooting it's brains out and taking it's head off? The only difference is the physical explosion of blood. hakmer, you've made it clear in the melee forum you are in favor of removing the restriction. But as it works now, zerkers got sort of even keel change from what they had to what they have. Rogues and rangers got shafted in that regard. The poor guys leveling rogues and rangers took it harder than anyone. To get the old max on those skills you're talking 199 AA for rank 22 anatomy and 194 for rank 22 headshot, add 15 more for the 3 new ranks. With proc rates being like they are they aren't even good leveling tools, it's meh if you're already 100 and raiding but screw everyone else.