Hate mod stacking

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by p8aa, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. p8aa Elder

    I made some research on these boards, and I have seen different answers.
    The goal of this post is to clarify things.

    Here are first the abilities in question.

    SPA 130
    Warlord's Fury (AA) : Slot 1: Increase Hate by 25 %
    Glyph of Angry Thoughts IV (AA) : Slot 1 : Increase Hate by 40 %

    SPA 114
    Rage of the Forsaken (AA) : Slot 1 : Increase Hate generated by 80 %
    Dissident Shielding (disc) : Slot 10 : Increase Hate generated by 100 %
    Echo of Anger V (worn mask) : Slot 1: Increase Hate generated by 25 %

    I read from some people "1 spell, 1 worn, 1 AA" like haste, but this is not working
    Rage of the Forsaken and Dissident Shielding hate mod don't stack (despite one is AA and the other disc) , but Echo of Anger (worn) shoud stack with either Rage of the forsaken or Dissident Shielding ? Is that correct ?
    Seems that slot or SPA don't matter btw there for stacking as we see inside the same SPA some thing might stack or other not...

    Second question and main reason of this post :
    Does Warlord Fury (or Glyph on Angry thought) stack with Rage of the Forsaken or Dissident Shielding ?

    I've seen contradictory answers on these boards from warriors.

    In 2014 :
    In 2018 :
  2. sojero Augur

    It may have changed in the past couple years since coding has changed a bit. Old school EQ was 1 of each, and was tested thoroughly, but that may not be the same anymore. Best bet is to bring 2 tanks somewhere and go through a known rotation with each to see how they are effected. use hate override with one, then the same thing with the other, so you have known starting off points.

    What I used to do was bring my wife's pally over and cast 1 hate over ride. Then use the sk to test the different mods, and if I needed to test the pally, i would just terror with the sk and then do the stuff on the pally, that made it where I had a set known and could extrapolate the information from there.

    Now one thing another SK pointed out to me, something has changed with agro. If one of us casts spear to pull a mob, it now adds more than the hate cap, same with a lifetap, and we tested that out by one pulling with a lifetap/spear and then the other doing terror and the one that did terror didn't jump the other by as much as they should have. If they used spear, the second sk would only push the other down to around 85% agro with a terror and if they used dissident fang, they wouldn't overtake them. I thought this had something to do with the way dissident cast spells off the first, and that is why we tested with spear too.
  3. Xorsazis Augur

    I've never tested it outright, but the word is, SPA114 does not stack. I have no idea about SPA130 in between the two, but I would imagine that any SPA114 would stack with SPA130.

    It would need confirmed with a dev response or testing.
  4. Liljit Augur

    Are you considering initial aggro in your calculations?
  5. sojero Augur

    initial agro doesn't take effect if you use a hate override, thats the purpose of a hate override. unless your talking about something else that im just not thinking about.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  6. Liljit Augur

    I was under the impression if 2 toons used hate override of equal value, the toon who aggro’d first would take/hold the mob.
  7. sojero Augur

    Nope, it will be whoever uses the higher hate over ride. the hate over ride just means that the full hate amount is applied even if that is your first action. Other actions that don't have an over ride are supposed to be capped, though as I stated in the post, this may not be so anymore. Further testing is needed on that.
  8. Liljit Augur

    I’m sorry, you must have missed the word “equal” in my post. What, in your experience happens when a hate override of EQUAL value is cast by 2 people?
  9. sojero Augur

    Yes i did miss equal, busy doing 2 things at once i guess. The first person keeps because you have to out agro by 1 more agro to take it away, and equal always keeps on first. There are some breakers to this like undead and proximity, and a couple others, but I don't focus on outliers just the general rule.
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  10. sojero Augur

    The one AA, one spell, and one worn is still the general rule, but some things like voice of thule (AA) cast a spell, so it doesn't stack with sk touch of hemofax. but the AA bold attacks is always on or off, and counts as the AA agro mod. bold attacks and voice of thule stack because they count one as AA and one as spell, even though both are AA.

    does rage or dissident go into the buff window? if they do they wont stack with other things that go into the buff window. So looking at the spell data, both rage and dissident go into the buff window therefor they should not stack. I know Echo of Anger works with both rage and Dissident.

    When referring to one aa and one worn, those refer to always on things, stuff you don't have to cast, anything cast generally falls into the spell, regardless if aa, spell, or item.
  11. Aelen Augur

    The AA in question would be your Bold Attacks passive AA, and it is SPA114
  12. Lianeb Augur

    Not that i am bringing anything to the conversation:
    I always thought it was 1 buff, 1 worn, 1 song
    Where did AA come from?
  13. sojero Augur

    I do not believe there are any songs that increase agro directly. There are a couple that decrease agro, so maybe that is what you are thinking about. But yes generally 1 in long term buff window, one worn, one in short term buff (enchanter visage rune effects) and one AA (that doesn't go to a buff windows, bold attacks currently)
  14. Beimeith Augur

    SPA 130 is a focus effect the same as a damage or heal focus. This means it only works on spells you cast and combat abilities you use.

    SPA 114 works on melee (swing) aggro.

    Stacking (generally) works as follows:

    For the same SPA:

    1 spell (buffs and songs are both spells)
    1 passive AA
    1 worn effect.

    2 spells/AA/worn of the same SPA will (generally) not stack together.

    For different SPA:

    1 spell for each SPA
    1 passive AA for each SPA
    1 worn effect for each SPA
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  15. sojero Augur

    So does SPA 114 not effect spell agro like terror or crush? and does SPA 130 not effect swing agro? When calculating agro we always combined them for all abilities. Wonder if I have been doing that wrong for a long time.
  16. Beimeith Augur

    My understanding is that they work on separate things, which is why there are two of them in the first place. However, I have NOT done testing to verify this, so it's possible I could be wrong.
  17. Aelen Augur

    There's overlap between 114 and 130, but they're not the same.

    I think both work on spell/proc stuff. I think 114 works on melee.

    I think 130 stacks in such a way that with enough from different sources you can generate negative hate out of positive.

    I think 114 does something wierd like throttling or capping at a low value.

    But it's been a while, and I don't think I fully made sense of that last one.
  18. Aelen Augur

    Clarifying this as I didn't think earlier, I tested with both positive and negative values, and these two statements apply to negative stuff
  19. Funky Augur

    Travenro's Spiteful Lyric has a hate proc
  20. sojero Augur

    That is a proc and not an agro mod, completely different.

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