Has Anybody Here Seen The Shadiest Swashbuckler?

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Roshen, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. ZenMaster Augur

    1. Economics 101 - Supply and Demand. Marcia is now a permanent NPC. Her inventory will rotate infinitely with duplicates upon duplicates. Furthermore, many of her prices are NOT 10-100x norm but near or at today's asking (Earring of Living Slime = 10.4 million, Mosscovered Branch = 7.1 million). You also need to factor in inflation and, independently, the Firiona Vie economy. It is likely in the future (if these items are kept trade-able), they might be seen as "toxic assets" or de-leveraged investments (after the hype) to be traded for "better assets" (new global chase loot or ornaments) - possibly sending prices FAR BELOW Marcia's asking and today's asking.

    2. This concern does not entirely rest on the identity of "original looter." Rather, it lays with the fact that Marcia negates - looting or finding-negotiating - efforts for collectors. Because collector's (original looter or high-end buyer) operated under the impression that these were "NO LONGER DROPPED." It is an important niche industry in EQ. One that highlights a "living game."

    3. From the perspective of today's economy, there is no immediacy to equip the alts and boxes. (Though, Firiona Vie server operates a larger economy). However, in the long term (say in one to two years), inflation and other opportunities may put these prices within reach for alts and boxes. *On a side note, the Nobles 10% tax looks illegitimate in comparison to reducing prices (increasing affordability) with the benefit of a one item per character limit.

    A NO TRADE flag is synergistic. The game developers are maintaining high prices because of the concerns that I have addressed above. We are taking away the market element (the elephant in the room) so that a broader audience can afford the utility on the items.
  2. ZenMaster Augur

    I have a question to ask the eager hands.

    What makes "No Longer Dropped" items special?
  3. segap Augur

    The two items I have I did personally loot.
  4. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    1. Supply and Demand has never worked in EQ due to the fact that the money and most items are effectively limitless, but we will ignore that for this discussion. Also I am sorry to hear that those items sell for like 10x as much as I've ever seen them go for here. Never once seen a McB sell for anywhere near 7 million; hell never even seen anyone try to sell one for that much lol. And no we don't need to factor in FV's economy; FV is a special ruleset. Also, drop the fancy financial buzz words, it doesn't help your argument at all. Today's asking price actually is far below Marcia's asking price on pretty much every item I have seen listed; if anything happens the asking prices will actually increase not decrease, because Marcia gives them a cap for what they can sell it for if they already have it; as I said before I have yet to see an item which she has sold which people have ever been offering even 1/2 the price she is selling it for.
    2. They are still no longer dropped; and I'm sorry but the only prestige to be had was if you actually looted the item yourself, which no one can really prove at this stage of the game since the items in question are droppable. Now, let's say that Marcia rotates thru her complete inventory once every 30 days. So and let's say that all of them are bought as they come up. That means in a year you might see 12-13 high end items and 60-65 of the low end ones enter the market in a year. If 12 more high end items a year or 5ish more low end items a month (less if it takes more than 30 days to cycle through her loot) is going to destroy that 'niche industry' then it wasn't that strong of an industry to begin with. But in all honesty the only people who are going to be buying from Marcia are those who want the item so they are not going to be buying it to resell it for a loss. A "living game" what the hell does that mean? Marcia selling these items for obscene amounts isn't going to change anything.
    3. People simply are not going to equip their alts with this gear period. If they do, then they really are the .1% of EQ players who do have billions of plat sitting in their banks. EQ inflation isn't in a one or two year thing. It is a when their are new things worth buying thing. The reason prices have inflated this year is because of the introduction of the chase items; I really don't see anything being inflated any more than it is for quite some time unless they completely revamp how this works. Adding a No Drop flag isn't going to magically lower any prices; if the Devs are going to lower the price it will be the same with or without the No drop flag. And really, if you have enough plat to obtain the Nobles to buy an item from Marcia, then you can probably can ask around for that same item for about 1/3-1/2 of the price and get one; though presently you can probably get some for even less than that since people don't know how much they sell for from her currently.
    Umm, no the Devs aren't maintaining high prices for any of the reasons you have listed. They just guessed on the prices at extremely high amounts. Roshen has even said that as Marcia cycles through her loot they will be watching how it goes and when things don't sell or rarely sell they are fully ready to lower those prices and change what items she sells. They have no intention at all to make this really be available to that much broader of an audience though. The low end prices are probably going to stay about where they are, if those don't sell they are the ones that will be changed out; but the prices on the higher end items probably will drop some. It's easier for the dev's to lower the prices or change out items than it is for them to duplicate all of the items to create a no trade version.
    Ok, congratulations; however I am fairly sure that you are the exception rather than the rule.
  5. ZenMaster Augur

    First Sentence: "Supply and Demand has never worked in EQ due to the fact that the money and most items are effectively limitless, but we will ignore that for this discussion."

    When, in fact, that is the heart of the matter in this case. (Yet, you used supply-and-demand to describe Krono prices). "No Longer Dropped" items are not limitless. I won't bother reading further.

    At this point, I am irked by your argument style. You attempt disguise your opinion as absolute truth backed up by inaccuracies, conjectures, and cherry-picking of the facts. There are no qualifiers - like "may" or "possible" - but absolutes - ""effectively" and "only" in each of your statements.

    You have an agenda. I understand that. I have tried to be constructive. And, quite frankly, I don't really see why you are vehemently opposed to a NO TRADE flag. I noticed that in your signature you write "Bearer of the Shackle of Tyrannonium, and Wielder of the Whistling Fists." Well, not a single collector has put "Wearer of Mask of Tinkering" in their sig. Everything is much clearer now.
  6. Melanippe Augur

    I must admit to some astonishment, no make that utter amazement, that anyone, with the possible exception of a collector with a terminal case of OCD, would even consider attempting to obtain ANY item being offered by Marcia, now or in future! This whole scheme resembles nothing short of a backhanded method to encourage more sales of Krono, masquerading as a way to remove the supposed excessive platinum from the game. Yes, masquerading ! Bragging rights? People are going to brag about something because they bought it? Good grief, if that's true how terribly sad that the game comes down to buying bragging rights!

    What is truly disconcerting and disheartening is that the developers apparently have time to create this foolishness yet seemingly display an utter
    disregard for the heart of the game, to whit: creating enticing and intriguing content, fixing long known bugs that affect ALL the players not just a tiny percentage of them, assuring that Beta testing for new content is not merely superficial but in-depth and thorough, maintaining honest and meaningful communications with the players with regard to their "vision" of the future of EverQuest - presuming that they believe there is a future for EverQuest.

    This game may be fifteen years old, but it still maintains a reasonably healthy population, still entices former players to again take the plunge as well as garnering a reasonable influx of the truly new-to-the-game players. Yet this on-going pattern of "buying" your way to achieve something diminishes the experience more and more and more.
  7. Kravitz Augur


    You are wrong, supply and demand doesn't work in EQ at all. I'll use the completely outdated bazaar system as the perfect example of how bad this is.

    Supply is restricted because you are restricted to 100 slots per trader, having bigger trade satchels will not solve this issue either as Supply is also restricted because not every person has unlimited trade slots to put up all of their available items for sale, while some have circumvented this by putting up more 10+ traders in bazaar, therefore creating a monopoly of all aspects of supply to some extent.

    Supply is restricted because not everyone in the game has a chance to keep their items up for sale 24/7. Sure you can become a permanent trader or use the offline trader system, but that restricts you from playing other aspects of the game. Those who can put up a trader/buyer 24/7 have mostly all control of this supply/demand further enabling their monopoly.

    Next there is a hard cap of 2.1 mill pp, but most people don't even know how to set that up and logging out completely from the game and changing your bazaar ini file to change items to be worth in the 1mill to 2.1mill range is not ideal. So you are hard capped at 1 mill basically for this discussion. So any items worth over 1 mill pp are supply restricted unless you feel like spamming chat channels all day auctioning your item till it sells, which deters folks from selling their item, or those who do inflate the price beyond reasonable.

    Demand is restricted by only being able to buy 200 items.
    Demand is restricted because of one person setting up multiple buyers.
    Demand is restricted by not having the chance to put up a buyer 24/7. So those that do, pretty much monopolize buying items and reselling it on thier 10+ traders.
  8. Rhymez Thebard Elder

    I'll post again just to say how much of a fan of this new super special vendor I am.

    There are a lot of un-informed haters out there. This was worth every bit of dev time spent to make it happen. Only thing I would fix is to add more no longer dropped chase items to the vendor. Perhaps even add a similar second merchant with a separate list of the no longer dropped chase items with similar restrictions.

    You disagree and don't like it? That's cool too. No one is forcing you to use it. And it just means less competition for the items I want. Take your rage elsewhere because on this, it is wasted.
  9. More Beer New Member

    I am finding it hard to even be interested in the vendor, given the high prices.
    Adding a no trade flag would completely kill it for me.
  10. Pwnography Augur

    Oh, the horror! The deception! The insanity! Im glad you've learned the art of being melodramatic. You do realize that Shady is exactly the sort of thing that is exceptionally effective at removing platinum from the game, right? Krono sales are supplemental. If someone is willing to buy them for an outdated item, who are we to judge? These are by no means necessary items in any sense. You can harp on these players, but in the end if they don't have the platinum, don't want to farm that much, and just want to do a couple hours of overtime to buy some - more power to them. In the end, tens of millions of platinum are being removed daily from the economy - which, surprise, is the intent. How sinister is a platinum remover in the game when the community specifically asked for Sony to deal with inflation?

    I laughed quite a bit here. How exactly do you think 90% of players with an original SoD attained it? We're dealing with items that haven't dropped in a full decade or more, with one clear possible on a server forever. Most everyone I knew from that era is no longer around. This has always been the way 'no longer dropped' items work. The bragging rights are with the owner. Finding an original looter for the rarest of these items is almost impossible, and it further complicates the mstter that you can't ever verify the authenticity of the claim. Collectors gather rare items - i.e., buy them.

    After an exceptionally long time, the rate of inflation has finally come to a head. The trading cap coded in at 2.1 Billion copper is now an issue and SoE has been promising a method to remove excess platinum from the game. It sounds like this has sparked enough interest to actually start the path to accomplish that goal. Do you really think an NPC Vendor with a loot table took that much time? If so, you don't have any clue. They spent ten times as much time sitting in the break room with donuts trying to decide what to put on it and prices than the actual implementation. Thats the beauty of it. This is an easy, quick solution that appeals to everyone's vanity yet has no impact on current game mechanics. This is only interesting to the nostalgic among us. They are solving a massive problem, whether you see it or not.

    They don't sell augs, god mode potions, raid loot, or any of that. How exactly are people buying an achievement? I'd get it, if say, they sold the Shawl 3.0 or BiC. These are long, tedious quests that actually still exist. You can no longer achieve 'No Longer Dropped' items... aside from, of course, buying them. Oh no! There is no achievement to 'buy' your way to, when the opportunity doesn't exist right now to attain them anyways. They're making old items available that most every player would have no potential to have otherwise - useless ones, to boot. Do you think there is a single thing ill be able to get to up my raid game? Absolutely not. We're dealing with vanity, like ornaments, more than we are a play to win situation. Calm down, take a deep breath, and realize this isn't goi ng to unleash doom and destruction on the game for all eternity. It solves a problem and gives vanity items with no real applicable use to some people. If I were a collector, I'd still have my collection anyways and the knowledge they are pre-buy. That should be satisfying by itself.
    Elricvonclief and Suana like this.
  11. ZenMaster Augur

    So, just like real-life, there are no perfect markets. I am not trying to make a perfect (ceteris paribus) Supply and Demand curve. A real-life analogue is that square footage and shelf space are limited resources. People are not at the mall all of the time. Are you saying Supply and Demand only applies to Amazon Bestseller's? How does Supply and Demand not apply there and here? Xianzu was saying it was "limitless" (which you can make that case for trade skill items). You are saying it is so because the system is "too limited."

    Look up Krono, Dreadmotes, or (Armor Slot) of Latent Ether. 5-30 sellers on each server. Prices vary but competition is the norm. Sure, you don't have a Bloomberg Terminal. But, the rules of Supply and Demand (even in a basic way) still apply.
  12. ZenMaster Augur


    The players clamoring for this vendor without limits (and, ironically, more items and cheaper prices) simply have no respect for many veterans and their hard work (whether looting or saving up). It is an entitled attitude that pulls others down in the process. There is so much controversy and negativity generated by this vendor that Roshen and the developers should consider pulling her.
    Melanippe likes this.
  13. Kravitz Augur


    Lol, there is no restriction on putting your item for sale, or the items you want to buy in the real world (except for the cash you have), I don't know what world you operate in, but I could put any # of items up for the whole world to see in Amazon (since you used Amazon as your example). If there was a restriction, 1 curve would overcompensate the other depending on which is being restricted (like in EQ), leading to inflation or deflation of the value your currency. In the case of EQ, its lead to deflation of the value of plat, and inflation of prices on items.
  14. ZenMaster Augur


    Wait. Your argument then wholly depends on your "Bazaar example." You have every right (and it's no limited by code or cost) to use /AUCTION (or General Chat). You have a right to send a tell to any player. I think you've linked the premise of your argument to your "example."

    Though, for clarification, virtual shelf space on Amazon is not free. A lease is not free in the real world. But, you have every right to attempt to peddle your goods on the street (as long as you don't violate city ordinance). And, again, like the peddler, you have every right to use chat to sell unlimited goods in EQ. It is so common that people even go across servers.
  15. Ancient Alien New Member

    if an item was valued because it no longer drops , and now it drops again , said value is non existent
  16. drkoli Augur


    If I were spending $350+ on new items I'd be buying the CoTF rare items not old stuff that does my toon zero good cool or not
    Shimmerleaf likes this.
  17. Melanippe Augur

    Pwnography writes:

    "Oh, the horror! The deception! The insanity! Im glad you've learned the art of being melodramatic. You do realize that Shady is exactly the sort of thing that is exceptionally effective at removing platinum from the game, right? Krono sales are supplemental. If someone is willing to buy them for an outdated item, who are we to judge? These are by no means necessary items in any sense. You can harp on these players, but in the end if they don't have the platinum, don't want to farm that much, and just want to do a couple hours of overtime to buy some - more power to them. In the end, tens of millions of platinum are being removed daily from the economy - which, surprise, is the intent. How sinister is a platinum remover in the game when the community specifically asked for Sony to deal with inflation?"

    The community didn't ask for this, in fact, so far, no developer has stepped up to own this "feature". You seem to disregard the basic fact that platinum in this game is virtually an unlimited resource. The idea that this will remove platinum from the game is ludicrous.

    Pwnography writes:
    "I laughed quite a bit here. How exactly do you think 90% of players with an original SoD attained it? We're dealing with items that haven't dropped in a full decade or more, with one clear possible on a server forever. Most everyone I knew from that era is no longer around. This has always been the way 'no longer dropped' items work. The bragging rights are with the owner. Finding an original looter for the rarest of these items is almost impossible, and it further complicates the mstter that you can't ever verify the authenticity of the claim. Collectors gather rare items - i.e., buy them."

    It is apparent that you seem to understand the meaning of the phrase "No longer drops", yet you insist that some people should now be entitled to obtain such items for no other reason than "Because I want it."

    Pwnography writes:

    "After an exceptionally long time, the rate of inflation has finally come to a head. The trading cap coded in at 2.1 Billion copper is now an issue and SoE has been promising a method to remove excess platinum from the game. It sounds like this has sparked enough interest to actually start the path to accomplish that goal. Do you really think an NPC Vendor with a loot table took that much time? If so, you don't have any clue. They spent ten times as much time sitting in the break room with donuts trying to decide what to put on it and prices than the actual implementation. Thats the beauty of it. This is an easy, quick solution that appeals to everyone's vanity yet has no impact on current game mechanics. This is only interesting to the nostalgic among us. They are solving a massive problem, whether you see it or not."

    You seem privy to the inner workings of the development team, your assertion that they spend their time in a break room with donuts is enlightening to be sure. It would appear that you are completely disregarding the fact that nothing whatsoever prevented player to player transactions, no cap, no limit, no special vendor, no special coin, no "fees", no development time expended, nothing. I shall repeat for your edification, platinum in this game is an unlimited commodity and shall continue to be so.

    Pwnography writes:

    "They don't sell augs, god mode potions, raid loot, or any of that. How exactly are people buying an achievement? I'd get it, if say, they sold the Shawl 3.0 or BiC. These are long, tedious quests that actually still exist. You can no longer achieve 'No Longer Dropped' items... aside from, of course, buying them. Oh no! There is no achievement to 'buy' your way to, when the opportunity doesn't exist right now to attain them anyways. They're making old items available that most every player would have no potential to have otherwise - useless ones, to boot. Do you think there is a single thing ill be able to get to up my raid game? Absolutely not. We're dealing with vanity, like ornaments, more than we are a play to win situation. Calm down, take a deep breath, and realize this isn't goi ng to unleash doom and destruction on the game for all eternity. It solves a problem and gives vanity items with no real applicable use to some people. If I were a collector, I'd still have my collection anyways and the knowledge they are pre-buy. That should be satisfying by itself."

    You say "They don't sell... " let me append the word "yet" to that statement. Odd that you characterize quests to obtain something as "long, tedious quests". That would indicate that you possibly prefer and agree with the premise that buying your way through the game is an option which should be expanded. You again justify this nonsense with the "Because I want it." mantra. Vanity items, yes, with that comment you hit the nail on the head! However, you fail to consider the consequences of this type of "feature" being added to the game over the long haul.
    ZenMaster likes this.
  18. fransisco Augur

    I think we can sum up the nerd rage in with:
    1. Collectors are angry that other people can now get their items too. Too bad.
    2. People are angry that the prices are higher than they can afford (which doesn't matter. These are for the rich, not for every player)
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  19. ZenMaster Augur


    The most sound statement in the entire thread.

    It explains why proponents are suffering from cognitive dissonance. It is too logical!
  20. Fendy Augur

    If I were spending $350+ I'd be buying a kick@ss tablet.
    Elricvonclief likes this.

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