Hard core vs Casual questions .

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Whulfgar, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Sheex Augur

    Hardcore neck beard parents basement dwelling players want an eviction button for guild real estate. Snowflake powder puff casuals do not.

    Watch the thread ‘splode!
    Sancus, EnchFWO and MasterMagnus like this.
  2. EnchFWO Augur

    Duh... hardcore players only pay attention to EQ 9 hours a week (being generous) and the casuals are too busy in game putting in 6 hours a day. No time for Forum-Quest!

    I'm disappointed we don't have a new Necro DOT thread about this patch though :(
    Whulfgar likes this.
  3. Fohpo Augur

    It's in the class forums
    EnchFWO likes this.
  4. Tatanka Augur

    I don't think that's the word you meant to use.
  5. menown Augur

    Auto-correct on a phone. Sorry.
  6. Tatanka Augur

    No worries :)

    Oh wow, yeah, auto-correct, didn't even think of that. I never use my phone to post anything, cause I type way too slow :(
  7. Aurastrider Augur



    Well for the sake of knowledge I would suggest going to the unmentioned software site and checking it out. Not as a potential customer (although you might be impressed with the visual settings) but to become more informative on what exactly the software does. Many people have this campaign against said software yet they have little to no knowledge of how it actually works. I think the bad reputation comes from those who have figured out how to abuse it (the botters who don't actually play but just run scripts and those who just don't care about the integrity of the game by running a couple dozen mages through a zone destroying everything in site regardless of who is there because dps wins). In reality your average user does neither of these things and through the years I have found most of us are some of the most helpful players in game. Yes maybe we cant drop what we are doing to run out and kill that named or run you through some quest (or maybe we can because we have the time and the power to do so) but we can provide you with in game knowledge or throw you a fresh set of buffs from one of our buff bots who we keep up just for that purpose.

    To summarize most people that have a negative opinion about the software have never actually used it while pretty much everyone who uses the software at one point in time played the solo game, group game, moloed, true boxed (no alt tab but multiple machines) and boxed with one computer using alt tab. It all comes down to preference in game play mechanics for those who use it and visual displays. I can say I am must more active playing with said software only using one keyboard vs several for the simple fact that I have significantly increased the number of toons I box over the years due to this tool. The more you add to it the more complex it can become and the more thought you have to put into your team design to actually make it work. This to me is more hardcore than running several mercs that are literally bots who will do up to 50% of your work for you.
    MasterMagnus, Fohpo and Bamboompow like this.
  8. Bamboompow Augur

    I will check it out when my soul sucking corporate job lets me out of my cage. I don't even have any accounts subbed right now. Otherwise it will be just another reminder of my lack of free time.
  9. Fohpo Augur

    Let's be honest, we're all clearly scumbags out to get the casual player
  10. Tatanka Augur

    The product does not do that. You can't, there is no way. Nobody can "figure it out", it's not possible.

    There are other products which can do this. The misunderstandings we see are because people conflate these things, and think one automatically equals the other.
  11. Ghubuk Augur



    Partly because some people are purposely conflating these programs (es boxer and em q2) in order to justify the use of em q2.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  12. Aurastrider Augur



    I agree or at least from the settings and features I have seen there is no way to do this with the program all by itself. But there are some very basic things that most of us have on our computer already even those who don't use this program who could automate gameplay. It obviously would not be as sophisticated as something specifically designed to do this but the combination of these two things (which would be against the EULA so don't try it people) could produce automated game play. I am not computer savvy by any means and even I could figure out how to do simple crap if I wanted to.
  13. blood & gufts Augur

    Now I am going to raise a lot of hair on peoples head and make a lot of people angry, so if you have high blood preasure, read further on at your own risk.....


    Hardcore people are probably about 10-25% better at doing stuff than casuals. This due to investing time into their characters, to learn all more tricks, while the casuals have more the thing, if i do not do it today, there is always tomorrow.

    Then further more there is the hardcore raiders, they very likely around 25% better in addition. They do not play they are better, they ARE that much better.

    They are that much better, because the guild they are in sets much higher standards, and if you do not fullfill those, you do not get into the guild.

    That said, I would say any guild has a living age of around 5 years top, where it can be at the top, after that time, it will slowly start to decline. Because what was it strength now slowly starts to become its weakness. It will have a core force, where some might start to slowly relax, and it is not noticed immediately, but it will slowly erode the guild. The guild leader might not be having courage to say it, because person part of its core force, and often there personal relations and others likely to follow some.
    Way to avoid it, make parsing and such, so all guild can see and respond on, so if 1 person starts to slack, it can be taken at the start, instead of letting it explode.
  14. CrazyLarth Augur

    if you done any trad-skills to 100 your hardcore. Grats.
  15. Tachyon Augur

    Did anyone say playtime?
  16. Bigstomp Augur


    With an account I've spent many years on, it's not worth the risk.
    As a software person I am curious about it. When/If I ever decide to retire I'll have a look at it.
    But my account means too much to me to chance it right now.
  17. Aurastrider Augur



    I understand the skepticism some people have. I was skeptical at first also which is why I spent weeks doing research and reading the EULA dozens of times before I decided to pull the trigger. For the sake of logic there are "true box" servers which basically mean "no boxing software". I do understand for the hardcore they believe true box means a different account per computer (I boxed in early EQ with multiple computers so I understand the technical difference) but the reality is the outcry from the TLP players against mega mage armies rolling through zones or afk farming is not possible doing alt tab which is why they made true box servers. If boxing software was illegal even when used within the scope of the EULA there would be no need for special boxing server.

    Here is the section of the EULA that focuses on this topic

    4.6 use, post, host, or distribute cheats, hacks, mods, macros, "bots" or other programs which would allow unattended game play or which otherwise impact game play (including, without limitation, any program which enables or facilitates mining, character kills, or level increases) in connection with any games.

    Since there are no mods to the EQ client, no macro's (it utilizes current EQ macro's available to everyone and further you still have to create them in game via socials), it does not bot (you have to press keys for it to function), mining would fall under the bot but afk fishing or foraging, character kills would again fall under bots (but has also been extended to mercs and pets) and level increases also falls under bots and the above pets and merc section. Basically if you are pressing keys to perform an action it is legal as long as you have not modified the client in an illegal fashion (an actual hack used via key press) while if you are killing or mining without pressing buttons it is illegal regardless of any program use or just standing around afk using pets and mercs. My guess is just as many people if not more violate the EULA in this regard with unattended gameplay via merc and pet kills who don't use any programs compared to the number of people using boxing programs who automate gameplay.
  18. Aurastrider Augur

    Here is a link https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/i-s-boxer-is-this-illegal.800/

    Keep in mind Piestro who comments on this (kind of funny wulf also started that thread) was an employee. There was no blue dev button back then so to confirm that he is an employee you can look under the archived forum section to confirm his status.

    This is the closes thing to an "official" response I think you are ever going to find on the subject although several developers have basically written it out clearly without saying any software names (given an endorsement of a specific boxing software). The obvious reasons why they cant endorse any software really is because they have no control over future development of the software. If that software changes something that violates the EULA and yet they have endorsed the software previously they could be caught in a difficult situation trying to explain why they are banning people who might not even realize they are violating the EULA with the new changes (although common sense should tell people they are violating it if they understand the EULA). Instead of saying you can do xyz covering each products design features its much easier to just say don't do abc.
    Geroblue and MasterMagnus like this.
  19. Quixotic Journeyman

    I would disagree with this. Using boxing software may very well increase your efficiency, but that doesn't mean you are a better player. While certain metrics (such as dps) are quantifiable, just because you have increased your dps through some sort of boxing software doesn't mean you are a better player. It simply means you have increased your dps. Just like giving you a weapon that increases your dps doesn't make you a better player. It can, I will add, give you the appearance of being a better player than you actually are, however. (And to most, appearances and results are all that matters.)

    I'm not saying using boxing (not botting) software, gina, etc, is bad. I just don't think that it correlates to being an actual better player.
  20. Tornicade_IV Augur

    There should be Hardcore, Core, and casual and observer

    the people using a high level of scripting to play aren't hardcore. they are just good programmers

    Min maxers aren't hardcore because they don't put them in situations that can be construed as challenging since they always have the ideal group for any situation.
    High playtime players in itself isn't essentially hardcore. they just have more free time than everyone else.

    someone in raid gear could never be hardcore in the group game specifically . they are already built to dominate group content by design. (however the hardcore raider will have all the raid request progression done even though they don't need to request raids)
    Whulfgar likes this.

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