Hard core vs Casual questions .

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Whulfgar, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Quixotic Journeyman

    Performance enhancing drugs are often not illegal. Most are simply against the rules of the Olympic (and many other) games. They may well make someone a better athlete. It's not forward thinking. It's not primitive thinking. It's simply against the rules. Using 3rd party programs to make the game easier (which does include coordination via discord, etc) does reduce the difficulty. So, if you measure hardcore by the metric of attempting to challenge yourself as much as possible (which is a perfectly valid metric,) then using any program to make things easier, against the rules or not, makes someone less 'hardcore.'

    Now... as seen from the posts, people don't always agree what metric to use to define hardcore.

    Most (but not all) people probably consider people who free climb more hardcore than those who use climbing tools. (Admittedly, a good number of people probably consider free climbers insane as well, but that's a different issue.... :)
  2. Yimin Augur

    That's right it was hardcore pre merc ! And you had to get your own body or it went poof at one time long ago that right there is hardcore , also I do recall guilds storming POF in Mage summoned armor at 3 am in the morning to get there bodies before they lost everything they had that is also hardcore , there is nothing really at all Hardcore about EQ any more , except to solo with out a merc , but you are free to define hardcore anyway you like ....
  3. Pistols4Pandas Elder

    Boxxing software only enables you to do what your imagination and ingenuity allow but your fingers are unable to. It does not make a great player. If you sucked without the software, you will continue to suck with it, it still requires the ingenuity and knowledge to create innovative and intelligent socials...

    What boxxing software does is allow a highly knowledgable, highly skilled, and intelligent player to do is say... You know, i know exactly how this could be won... If only I coukd do A, B, and C in 1 second, when myvhands can only do it in 3...

    Being someone new to using basic key broadcasting software ill tell you its very very hard to learn to use, i spend more time contemplating, creating, testing, and parsing new socials than i do fighting, it is not a 'win button', it is highly complex, and requires much more creativity and intelligence than playing a single character to the max of its ability.

    To be honest a 12 year old can play a character to the max, and they do, I did... 20 years ago.

    Boxxing requires so much more. People have secretaries for the same reason, at a certain point monotonous tasks and actions limit a persons productive and creative capacity. Eliminating monotonous tasks ( feeding oneself ) to dedicate time to more intellectual and creative tasks ( specialization ) is how civilization came to be.

    Otherwise wed all still be picking berries and spearing pigs, rather than walking on the moon and curing disease.

    To call boxxing cheating is like saying a composer is cheating at music because he doesnt physically blow the air through every instrument in a symphony, very myopic and luddite view.
    Aurastrider likes this.
  4. Whulfgar Augur

    I consider myself base line casual player.
  5. Tatanka Augur

    OK, now we have a metric. The Whulfgar scale :)
  6. Bigstomp Augur

    I've seen you tank. That sounds about right.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  7. mmats Augur

  8. Whulfgar Augur


  9. Aurastrider Augur

    Even within the term of boxer there are different levels of difficulty based on how many toons you box. Having true boxed 3 toons with 3 mercs for example and then six boxed 6 toons with unmentioned boxing software I can say 6 boxing was a lot more difficult using said software than doing true box with 3 toons and 3 mercs. Also within the number of different class variable one adds to the group can also contribute to a higher or lower level of difficulty. Simply saying if you true box you are hardcore vs someone who uses boxing software is way to broad of a statement to hold any merit because someone could simply be two boxing with one of their boxes being a bard standing there with melody running and their merc autoplaying for them while in reality they are less hardcore than someone who is moloing.
  10. Aurastrider Augur

    Exactly some people have this impression that you just download the software, load your character, hit a couple of buttons and boom you have won EQ. It took me weeks to overcome the muscle memory that I had engrained in me from over the years alone when I switch most of my hotkeys and keybinds around to make it work. Add to that all the time and research on different classes. All of the macro creations and the testing required to make sure they actually function and trying to make them all fit into a limited number of keys. Then there are the dreaded AA consolidations that change AA numbers which screw up said macros on possibly all of your toons. It is by no means an easy button like some people think but it is a more efficient gaming experience and imo a much more enjoyable one.
    Zamiam likes this.
  11. Belexes Augur

    This hardcore vs casual stuff is nonsense.

    Simply put, your results are proportional to what effort you put in to the game.

    You don't do jack, you don't get jack. If you expect money for nothing and chicks for free, then you are in dire straits indeed.

    You will never be able to categorize players with these terms. You can however, categorize those who won't do jack and expect something for it and those who do and get the rewards for doing it.

    That is the important distinction here. If I play one hour a day, I should be happy with what one hour a day gives me. I shouldn't expect raid gear, or dumb everything down so all rewards, gear etc. in the game are possible for one hour of play time a day. This is not that kind of game. If you expect this, you need to play a different game.

    "A man has got to know his limitations."

    "You keep what you kill."
    Fohpo likes this.
  12. Fohpo Augur

  13. Bamboompow Augur

    Disclaimer: The following will be snarky. If you are easily offended than just go do something else somewhere else. It expresses an OPINION. Nothing more. If that is just too much for you to handle than at the very least stop reading. :rolleyes:

    This thread is just more of the BS Tribalism being manifested in the world. The whole "With us or against us!" crap that makes it easy to just completely ignore the other point of view, be totally intolerant of the other side and not bother to actually do any thinking as long as you drink whatever Koolaid you align with unquestionably. The political map of the USA, easily the most polarized nation in the developed world, is actually mostly purple, but you can't get that notion past anyone who is a strong believer that Koolaid only comes in Cherry or Berry Blast. Its all just food coloring and sugar anyway.

    As for bot scripts...call them what they are. They are bots. You are not boxing. You are allowing an AI/algorithm to play the game for you. As in you can go off and do something completely else (like not even be home, never mind be at the keyboard) and the game plays itself on autopilot. How is that being hardcore? Spoiler: Its not. Its circumventing the system.

    Until DBG actually puts those scripts in game as "feature" for an expac in the foreseeable future...than sorry but its just plain up cheating and suggesting that using those scripts are some how virtuous is insulting as well as...unfortunately....unsurprising. Its where we are at. Woot. :(

    The whole metaphor of Russia's performance enhancing drugs "being the future of sport", perhaps other than in maybe snowflake and cupcake land, is bunk. Its cheating. For the interest of a level playing field in sport, there are these things called "rules". Still, the Russians (and others) seem to think the rules are for those other chumps who won't be standing on the podium. It seems to be more fun and glamorous to cheat and get away with it, right? Or tell the authorities to go piss-off and that you will play the game only on your terms, dare the powers that be to actually do anything about it as well as play on the sympathies of other scofflaws/anarchists. That's pretty cool too, right?
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Ghubuk like this.
  14. Aurastrider Augur

    I agree anything that is automated is against the rules and is far from hardcore and in reality is not even playing. I don't recall anyone defending script bot armies though and if they are that's a whole different story than using boxing software that requires you to be at your keyboard and furthermore requires you to press keys to actually perform an action. Maybe I am reading you wrong but it sounds like you are under the assumption that boxing software equals automated gameplay.
  15. Ghubuk Augur

    Always funny how certain people will try and muddy the waters by insinuating that ES boxer (and not EM q2) are what others are saying is cheating.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  16. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Augur

    "There came to Egypt a man who did not know."
  17. Bamboompow Augur

    Not entirely but yes. This is where it gets difficult for me to not look ignorant but I am just going to have to own it. I have never personally used anything other than what comes with the game stock outside of ATs and a parser. Standard UI, standard everything. I play 3-4 characters at once (or did. On a break atm from the game due to work) and pretty much all I ever did was try to set up some commonality in muscle movements for all with multi-binds. Otherwise I play all 3-4 manually. Sometimes with less than spectacular results. Again I gotta own that. I don't know all that is out therein detail because it never piqued my interest to find out. I enjoy the challenge of playing those characters manually.

    So perhaps that is the confusion (or some will certainly drop hypocritical ignorance, sanctimonious arrogance etc) on my part, mainly because those 3rd party programs are mostly out of my ballpark. I have used stuff like GINA though. So if anyone wants to pick nits (and people certainly will!) , I can't say with 100% conviction that I have never used 3rd party stuff since gamparse, GINA, gamtexttriggers as well as stuff like Skype, Vent etc ARE third party. Guilds do make requests bordering on demands and sometimes there has to be compromise. Rules cut both ways.

    As far as boxing aids go....sounds like a grey area. Some purists might argue that even the muli-binding ability within the game itself is wrong. Good thing its not my job to pass judgement on that other than have an opinion.
  18. menown Augur

    Using boxing software adds an efficiency to game play. If you are a bad player, then using the software will increase your efficiency to become a better player. If you are a great player, the software will increase your efficiency to become super.

    The reason why paralytic sprinters using the carbon spring foot are not allowed into the Olympics is because their prosthetic gives them a much greater efficiency than the traditional human athletes leg. They could be a great sprinter, but also with an unfair advantage.

    However, Everquest does not operate like the Olympics. Not all variables are equal. I suppose people can take advantage of efficiencies in game play to maximize their potential. But, I am more impressed with people who do not use any 3rd party software. People who never fail emotes in raids and people who can play multiple toons well without the need or crutch of these other tools.

    For me, I gage hardcore vs casual by knowledge of the game. Not crappy lore but game mechanics. This takes time to do your research and actively search for answers to your questions. Parsers is but 1 method of doing this. Knowledge of multiple classes and synergies comes to mind. NPC mechanics or past raid mechanics help to deal with similar future mechanics.
    shiftie likes this.
  19. Fohpo Augur

    Those are the same people who can pick up a class at 85/105/110, read a guide to setup some basic burns/macros, and do a passable job in a group/raid though.You'd be surprised how few of these players seem to exist. I honestly, based on empirical evidence, feel like there are way more of the "casual" than there are of the "hardcore" player. Same goes for the raid experience, there are tons of people who aren't in RoI, MS, CT, or other top guilds who are just along for the ride and don't bother with GINA/parses/etc...
  20. mmats Augur

    Only 4 pages? I feel like yall arent taking this serious enough. We need to get to the bottom of what defines a hardcore vs casual player ASAP!

    Tatanka likes this.

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