Hadden (and respecting camps)

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by EchoFreya, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    1. First, the community of people that I have joined and played with since Rizlona opened up (my guild). This behaviour is not accepted by a single member. Not one.
    2. Second, the others I have met and grouped with along the way. There are very real efforts to avoid encountering these types of players, and when we do, their opinions are made in group chat very quickly.
    3. Third, in my research on this very forum for how this perspective formed, I came across a thread from 5 years ago that clearly spells out how several members of this game community felt about attitudes that promote antisocial behaviour. You may want to give it a read, or not, but it clearly illustrates the disdain people had for the possibility that PNP rulesets were not going to be enforced, and "DPS races" threatened to become the new normal.
    4. Fourth, every week there are new posts where someone is complaining about how their epic quest item was botched by an interfering player, 'camps' are stolen or not respected, 'bot army' issues, and all of these problems (and others) are regularly met with similarly antisocial 'solutions' (train them, bring your guild and DPS force them out, re-roll a mage group, etc.). If a player voices that they find any of these things abhorrent on these forums, they are subsequently shamed, ridiculed, called names, etc.
    Yes, these things exist in online spaces, but I don't think I've encountered any online space where abusive behaviour is as openly tolerated as it seems to be here, and it's shocking considering the history this game once had for being a lot more intolerant of abuse and antisocial behaviour. On live long ago, my server community made a spinoff board where those who were banned from the game or forum could continue to verbally bash, abuse, and slay each other (some may remember it here as Xegony.net), because this type of behaviour was never condoned or permitted, and infractions were regularly attended to.

    I pay a subscription today, just as I did then. Pardon me for expecting similar service.
    Lejaun likes this.
  2. Lejaun Augur


    I remember Xegony.net myself. The one that preceded it was even worse. I don't remember the name of that one.
  3. Cicelee Augur

    I have never played on a TLP because I could never DPS race or train or engage in toxic behavior like what is described ad nauseum. I just choose to not play EQ TLP 2020 and instead stick with EQ Live 2020, where the only disruptive behavior I ever see are AFK XP groups. And even then, there is enough to do in current era to where those types of groups have never affected me...
  4. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    I often wonder what happened to Sluggo.

    EQ didn't have official forums initially, but there was EQ Vault (IGN). Perhaps that's the one you are thinking of?
  5. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    I opted for TLP, because there will be a very steep learning curve going back to live (I hadn't logged my original characters for over 15 years until just recently, and couldn't make sense of anything it was so different).

    I hoped a TLP experience would help me understand the changes better, so I could decide whether to play on live again or not. Right now with all that is going on, I am not sure I'll make it past PoP without becoming literally sick of the BS antisocial crap that goes on here, and it's souring my faith that live is any better to be honest.
  6. Lejaun Augur

    Ahh...the infamous necromancer (I think). I still remember seeing a picture of him that someone found or he posted that he got flamed for. I'm pretty sure he quit the game and later went to WoW...but I could be wrong.
    EchoFreya likes this.
  7. Captain Video Augur


    You've obviously never played Call of Duty *lol*. Or, for that matter, any Asian-published MMO. And you are 100% wrong about abusive behavior being tolerated here, quite the opposite is true: document verbal abuse and /petition it, and if substantiated then disciplinary action will be taken. The chat log you posted wouldn't come close to being considered abusive. Your definition of abusive behavior is that another player (apparently a solo Druid, how embarrassing is that) "stole" the mob you were waiting to spawn while you were asleep at the wheel. That's not abusive, and wouldn't even have been considered so back in the day. Is antisocial behavior tolerated? Yes, this is the real world, not Fantasia. Some players will be nicer than others, and that was true back in the day as well. You're looking back at EQ's history with the proverbial rose-colored glasses.

    We're supposed to believe you have an entire guild on Rizlona and none of you know the published rules of the game as they are today?? Why aren't any of your guildmates coming here to back you up?

    The rules of the game and the Terms of Service are not the same as they were 20 years ago, and you already knew that. You pay for what is being advertised now, not what existed back then. It's a take-it-or-leave-it thing. You also get subscriber-level access to other Daybreak games, which were once all separate fees. Your monthly sub doesn't all go to EQ1. Both the dev team and the CS team are much smaller now; the game runs on a shoestring budget. The alternative would be no EQ at all, for anybody. Is that what you want?
  8. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    @Captain Video

    I don't think you and I interpret the Terms of Service or Rules of Conduct the same way. The only difference between then and now, is today there is a lack of enforcement of what is written.

    I don't need your permission or endorsement of my interpretation of experiences that inspired me start this thread. I acknowledge your position, but I don't need to agree, and no amount of shaming is going to change how I feel about this matter. Carry on if you must, but your efforts are wasted on me.
  9. Godsanvil Journeyman

    Horrible game mechanic. I can see both sides of the argument. On one side why should someone be able to just sit at a mob all day long and kill it? Just because you work from home and can sit on your all day at a computer? On the other hand what give the guy the right to just walk up and kill a mob someone has spent hours waiting on to spawn. Its the game not the people. Its stupid. Its one of the main reasons i find it hard to play this game over other game that handle loot and boss mobs in a much better way.
  10. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    "Mr Personality 2020".
    Lejaun likes this.
  11. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    Not going to disagree here. Placing one of the only EB items on a mob with at 5 hour timer without a guaranteed drop is pretty silly game design in environments that house over 1000 players. Developers have the ability to tune this, but for the life of me I don’t understand why they encourage situations like this by doing nothing.

    For the same reasons that anyone does anything in this game. Freedom of choice.

    Some people enjoy the act of ‘camping’, because killing a mob (or two, or three, etc.) on long respawn timers allows players who have other responsibilities to accomplish things in this game they may not otherwise be able to accommodate. While they wait between timer alarms alerting that something is about to spawn, they are dealing with other responsibilities that don’t mesh well with the demands and mechanics of this game. They find ways to make it work. They don’t mind lines, and are patient to wait their turn and when they tick things off their checklist of “to do’s”, they move on. Most legitimate players don’t camp Hadden (or anything) forever, because there are other things on that list.

    From my perspective, the same amount of right as a person who ignores a lineup of people waiting, steps into the front of the line, and takes the first handout.

    These people don’t find ways to make things work in a way that respects other people. They take what they want, when they want it, with little regard for others. They have no patience. They want what they want NOW, and feel more entitled to have it than anyone else. They don’t think beyond the moment, so it doesn’t occur to them that the person there today won’t be there in a few hours, and if they ask nicely that person would send them a tell to let them know when they’re done with the ‘camp’. But no, they they need it NOW, and they just can’t stop fixating on it, so they’ll do whatever it takes to get it (bribes, intimidation, insults, DPS racing, griefing, stealing, etc.)
  12. Captain Video Augur


    I can see why you work at home.
  13. Lejaun Augur

    Let's keep it to the content of the discussion rather than attack each other.
  14. Jonee New Member

    Hi, Jonee here. Smoki has never attempted to KS Hadden from me and there were 2 or 3 chances when Hadden spawned and Smoki (or presumably an alt with a similar name) was in the area.

    People that try and KS camps are the kinds of people that your parents warn you about. Just because we live under a might-makes-right system does not mean that we have to live like barbarians; this isn't Halas. We can choose to be better. "Can I KS a spawn" and "Should I KS a spawn" have two different meanings and the people that can't comprehend are no friends of mine.
  15. Moranis Augur

    The free part is key.

    It's pretty fun - but honestly, the exp is way too fast in the early game on Live servers to make this masochistic attempt at reliving the dream viable.

    I camped the ghoulbane in Upper Guk and after maybe 2 hours of slowly killing everything near there, I went from like lvl 26-35 and almost everything turned grey. Somewhere around level 33 I confined myself to the shin lord room so as not to level up too much.

    Same thing happened at Mistmoore camping the Lute/Battle drums - just fighting my way into that room leveled my group up from 35-39 and made the camp trivial.
  16. Loze Elder

    I was wrong, This might be dumber.

    So let me get this straight. While watching Netflix, I am not allowed to touch my keyboard or move my character. I can't play and watch Netflix at the same time? Does this also apply to Amazon Prime Video? I've been playing and watching BOTH for years. Will a GM please ban me! I didn't know I wasn't allowed. I've been naughty!
    EchoFreya likes this.
  17. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    Hi Jonee. Thanks for your respectful post.

    I noticed you later that day off in the distance, some time after the morning outlined in this post when I chose to stay and 'camp' Hadden for two more spawn rotations. You demonstrated mutual player respect that most on Rizlona seem to observe, and I appreciate your consideration. It sounds like your experience at that camp was been a more positive, peaceful experience, and I hope it remains that way. If/when I do return (0 for 3 for me) and see you or anyone else (including Smoki) waiting there, I will return the same mutual respect.
  18. Smoki New Member

    Just bind your druid there and check when you can. It's a lot easier than dedicating yourself to the spawn.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  19. Captain Video Augur


    Not what I said, and you know it. The standard is, are you actually doing something human-aided in-game. Typing. Clicking. Moving. If you are such a proficient multi-tasker than you can keep doing this all the time while still watching your video stream, more power to you... but the forums are full of whining complaints from players who got themselves suspended, and rightfully so, because a GM came by and saw them as AFK, and the player wasn't really paying attention to the game, the focus was on the video in the other window. In the case of this OP, it wasn't a GM who caught him, it was another player who was after an item, and the OP stated up front he wasn't paying attention. Losing said item is a lot less painful than a 7-day suspension.

    No player who admits publicly to multi-tasking EQ and a video stream app would ever be welcome in any group I play in. Such players cannot be counted on to pay proper attention at the critical moments when full attention is absolutely necessary. I doubt there is a single veteran player who can't tell any anecdotal stories of how an important encounter, hours if not days in planning, got wiped because of Netflix or its kin. I have Prime Video too, and I watch something almost every day, but NOT when I'm playing EQ.

    Several posters have tried to make this thread into a rehash of the years-long PNP vs. DPS race debate. As I think I've made clear, from my perspective that has nothing to do with this. You snooze, you lose is a golden rule in any MMO. I never intentionally KS a mob I see being engaged by another player. But if he's got "AFK" over his head, and he isn't moving, and he doesn't answer a /tell, then that mob next to him is fair game. He can argue PNP until Luclin explodes, but that's the vast majority view of veteran players in this game.
  20. Captain Video Augur

    This is way off-topic, but...


    The trick is to think the opposite of what the PL'ers do. Avoid, at least to begin with, the places they go to first because there are so many spawn points. I focus on finding and completing quests, or lines of quests, and only kill what is necessary for the tasks. At times, it's an opportunity for practicing how to avoid unnecessary aggro, so you won't level as fast. If you do out-level an area you want to experience, there are a few options: some areas can be played at lower level using a shroud; some have higher-level quests which aren't strictly in-era, but you can find by searching Zam; some can be played with a lower-level alt as the temporary main, and your original main is along as emergency backup. Of course that option means keeping alts on a second account, and there are some class choices to make about what you like best.

    I am particularly fond of the newbie armor quests that go in at DoN, the sequence is meant for levels 11-20. If you avoid Defiant armor, these can be quite a challenge the first time you do them, and yet almost nobody plays them. There are three NPCs in PoK for these quests, one good, one evil and one neutral. The visible armor pieces and weapons you get from either the good or evil guys are not unique; in almost all cases they can be non-TS-crafted instead via recipes supplied by your guildmaster. The neutral guy gives out pieces for non-visible slots that can't be crafted. The catch here is that neither the good or evil NPCs will give out their quests to any toons who have Crescent Reach as their home city, as it didn't exist when these quests were scripted in the DoN era. So either roll toons while your account is subbed, and you aren't forced to pick CR, or else do all this on the Test server. It's unfortunate that some of the best quests for new F2P players to try can't be done by them for silly reasons like being stuck with CR. /vent off