Guildes are going to be the worst in this TLP and here is why.

this is a bit I think will be really interesting for GDKP on a free trade server. You are bidding against the entire server essentially. People that enjoy flipping loot and have resources to buy it in raid will make tons of money. They'll do it by channeling loot out from the raid but basically all the raid content is trivial so nbd

Musicians and artists should work for free because they love being musicians and artists by your logic.

Someone would not be willing to pay more than "Market Rate" for X item. If going price for Cloak of Flames is 9kr they wont pay 14kr and then go try to sell it for 9kr. People wont get cheap loot from GDKP and then go sell it in the tunnel without the entire raid allowing that, good luck having that happen.

For the server it does seem interesting, but I'd hate to be in the guild later on when gear DOES matter, and some of those folks are flipping things in bazaar while the guild is failing on events from gearing issues where things were funneled to Bazaar.

First couple expansions where group gear is equivalent though? Yea, it'll be amazing.

14 -> 9 isn't typical arbitrage margins - biggest arbitrage folks aim more like getting something slightly below market or trying to manipulate the market to nudge it slightly above what the old market was.

Dude I mentioned earlier that literally had somewhere in 4 digits of krono made the lion's share by buying at -5% to on par with market and selling after a little appreciation. Especially when you've got the cases of folks that can pay a premium to see things that they were unlucky with in their targets or even skipping out on having to make an effort raiding at all.

No.

A guild leader isn't creating entertainment for you. Neither is a raid leader. They are collaborating with you to enjoy something together that DPG has created. They need you as much as you need them. That's completely different than what a musician or artist does.

Also, no musician or artist is entitled to competition--they get pay only because people value their work and want to buy it. They aren't laboring for a wage. If no one likes their art, no one buys it, and the artist doesn't get paid.

I'm not against paid leadership in general. I am paid professionally to lead in real life. I just don't see the value in bringing that into a game that we all play for fun.

Similar to the way that DBG doesn't want to do another premium server since the players there felt entitled (right or wrong) to a much higher level of CS, if your guild leadership began collecting a salary I'm sure the raiders/members would also have higher demands from them. As it is now there are perks to being an Officer/Leader but they are offset by alot of cons. No need to make it more complicated.
I agree with you.

Selo proved you can beat Luclin with basically no gear at all. Not really too worried about "Failing events" Also why you acting like your some kinda stranger Vaclav, like you and Lornah weren't in my guild on Phinny? Say Hi to me in game, if you dont quit the server before it comes out.

Too many of you have this mindset that this is a normal server. Did you not read the dev post? They don't want it to be a normal server! They're actively trying to break that mold!

If your one gdkp guild happens to have a couple guys scooping up gear with their thousands of usd poured into it... there's handmedowns, extras, non-bis, and a whole server market. You can buy bis gear loot rights already on other servers; it's truly wild to think that even if you get whaled into nothing but kroners to show for your raids you won't be able to just head on over to bazaar/ec and just grab stuff with your earnings.

It's hard to really describe the situation because things were such a mess through pop/god. To put it bluntly, a lot of the best players in the guild spent more time banned than unbanned, and raided on alts. There was also a decent amount of work behind the scenes with setup and tracking or expansion launch plans. Meanwhile, it's pretty normal for ANYONE to only notice their dkp is off when it suddenly matters - trust me, 90%+ of my tells (as dkp officer) about dkp issues happened right as went down. TA dropped? Every shaman who missed a coirnav tick 2 weeks ago suddenly notices and needs it fixed RIGHT NOW. So you have a situation where adding ticks to people and adjusting dkp is a routine thing, and there's this scummery going on next to it, and a lot of time it's hard to tell. Meanwhile the cheater is also the hardest worker and literally tells the officers "if I stop doing all this work the guild will fail" and the moment he said "I can't do this expansion launch someone else needs to step up" the guild failed just like he predicted. So you're in a bind where attendance is being added constantly and a few of them shouldn't be and it's hard to track and harder to fix, and, hate me for saying it, you don't REALLY want to deal with it.

Or you can just use gdkp. Nobody gives a rat's rear what character you raid on since the currency is easily traded. You can't have inflation because officers can't add platinum or kronos just out of thin air. If the guy doing all the work behind the scenes wants an extra cut everyone can see it happen.

The person in question was a constant negative to the guild on Phinny the guild did just fine when he as ousted, they lost SoL because of him refusing to listen and almost lost GoD because of him refusing to other officers and members that are straight up better then him. The guild almost lost SoV to because of his ideas on what a proper comp to bring to sleepers was and his a few of buddies complete inability to do basic like dodge Ventani AEs.

He rage quit during the middle of the race when Faceless got Emp first and he caused at least a dozen good players to leave and another few dozen good players to not wanna play with him in the first place.

TL guilds will always fail in the long run because of him. He has zero people skills and is terrible at leadership.

I shouldn't be surprised by this, after all these years and even being part of the guild you are referring to albeit briefly... But somehow still am.

Any guild that has to factor in this sort of thing as part of their cost of doing business probably shouldn't be giving advice to how to set up dkp to the rest of the eq playerbase. And I say that as someone currently playing on a server where pretty much any of us could be banned any time DPG feels the need to do so. Most guilds never will or should have to deal with "but what if all our best players are banned?"

But your post brings up one important thing about gdkp. "Nobody gives a rat's rear what character you raid on since the currency is easily traded." But guilds SHOULD, because if every week you have new tanks because last week's tanks got banned or sold or whatever, you will reach points where you will not progress. Likewise to a lesser extent every other class. Toons are not interchangeable. Guilds need a broad level of gearing up to be successful.

Maybe you can ignore that through Luclin, but PoP will slap you hard in the face if you do.

I've said flat out I know you and Zaide and both of you are people I'd put trust in. Figured that made it clear I knew you guys, even if I wasn't bluntly stating my old name all over, since it's only relevant in a few circles. Just like I never mention Aszuth as a name anymore, since everyone knew that name switch.

People have known me as Demetri since DoN opened on Phin, what is that, 5 years straight now? Never even used Vaclav as a forum name here, only FoH and my Gmail I think? If there was any others, they've been long since deprecated. EQ Live forums were always Aszuth or variants, previous to this.

But yea, PoP is the first that really starts to gear check at all - but with LDoN being able to buttress gearing soon after and plentiful raid molds it's not too bad - I'm talking more DoDH+ (although even then it's not horrendous). UF is really where I'd begin to worry mostly.

And after I returned in DoN, been on Phin through to the end, BTW - going to see CoV for a while until Phin finally dies down to attrition. All my thoughts are about longterm anymore, while I do find the early eras boring (thank god it won't be 3 months of VP this time - that was really the killer for me, all the keying drama and then just boredom b/c VP is garbage content - did truly intend to return in SoF, but life got weird between and wasn't "feeling it")

Always happy to chat though, but it'll probably have to be x-server, thusfar it seems like the crew I'm running with is overwhelmingly preferring Thornblade.

Gdkp will never ever come anywhere close to being effective for gearing. The argument is if it's fair and how prone to corruption. I am arguing that it is the hardest to corrupt and the easiest to spot corruption. If you want to plow content as efficiently as possible it doesn't fit at all, but that doesn't seem to be the goal here.

And I would argue that people who have dealt with broken loot systems ARE the ones best qualified to talk about what loot systems are easy to break.

And? I am arguing that in a gdkp system it doesn't bring you down. A dozen people like that won't crack the guild. That's the point. Gdkp isn't there to be efficient or help move gear to tanks and pullers and rot clerics. Its there so people can not give a feces about loot and do what they want.

There is a wide spectrum of potential difficulty in EQ content. For many many expansions you can get by perfectly fine being sub optimally geared. Sure it might mean the content is slightly more challenging but there is big difference between "This raid is not trivial" and "We cannot complete this encounter because of poor gear outcomes".

Since we're all (mostly) reasonable people; it won't be a problem for the rules to grow and become more nuanced over the months and years this guild will be on Mischief. Like anything else, you see problems coming and you solve them before they arrive.

Also, any GDKP guild is going to have incentive to at least keep some of the gear when this happens otherwise they will not be clearing the content and the gravy train stops. Or the guild collapses, it's a self correcting problem.

Everquest is a game not a job, you shouldn't be comparing it to various professions.

GDKP is so much transparent, and some people prefer the dark. In the only point were GDKP can be not fair are in the early days, some classes have easy acces to platinum over other classes. In other cases, sems really fair, and make bids more stable and acurate on the item value.

Any loot system can be transparent or hide things from people it all depends on how they are run. In truth when talking about fairness it isn't just that some classes can get platinum more easily than others but some players can as well. With GDKP it can easily come down to who is playing the most outside of raids or who is buying the most krono to turn into platinum.

While GDKP can be an interesting twist on a loot system it can easily be gamed by players gaining money outside of the guild.

Yeah but isn't that a feature not a bug? The people farming plat/krono outside the raid and then spending it inside the raid increase the split for the ones who only raid log which increases their purchasing power next raid or in the tunnel.