What is considered good guild dps you can do it per event tol if you want. A: 70m? B: 50m ? C: 30m ? D: 10m ? F: less than 8m? You should be able to beat events with D tier dps.
To answer the question though, you should be able to beat every ToL raid event except maybe close the gate doing 30-40 million as a guild. EDIT 25 million will likely get the job done. 10 million basically means 70% of your force is afk.
I want your input. I was giving an example that is why I had the ? Guild dps... what do you consider an A in numbers? (best dps to beat the raid the fastest) A: ? Guild dps what do you consider a B in numbers? (better than average guild dps) B: ? Guild dps what do you consider a C in numbers? (Average guild dps) C: ? Guild dps what do you consider a D in numbers? (Lowest guild dps to beat the raid) D: ? My thought process is...... everyone talks about guild dps levels but what is the standard? We need a metric.
IMO people are too focused on dps. Its nice, but its not the whole thing. Events are lost due to missing emotes or not having the correct strategy. I cant even remember an event that was lost due to not having enough dps.
Aten Ha Ra is a biiiig ol' dps check. If the raid force doesn't knock her over inside 20 minutes, the raid force will be chain blinded while additional Pli Liakos spawn, locking the boss hp while each one is up. To win ToL, a raid force *requires* a certain level of dps. There are other events that become super grindy & awful, with vastly expanded time in which emotes can be missed, or poor timing can line up on AEs, or whatever else can go wrong. DPS may not be the whole thing, indeed no one until you had suggested so, but also -- it's pretty close to the whole thing. No raiding player or raid force that works hard on DPS, like actually works on it not just claims they're good, is going to be failing those other bits.
15m sustained raid DPS is sufficient to squeak through every event in ToL. You might end up having to deal with enrage mechanics on some of them if you are even a hair below that. The higher you get above 15m the easier the events are. The lower your DPS the better your players need to be at consistently doing event mechanics. Many events *can* be beaten with lower. I think on our first (very sloppy) kill of Free the Goranga we only averaged 9 or 10m.
You need 23m to beat AHR right at enrage. That's essentially your benchmark, because you are unlikely to win after 4-5 minutes of enrage there. Phase 1 Close the Gate you need a minimum of about 16m to finish shortly after the new wave spawns, lower amounts can be dealt with, but as you will generally want to save burns for a later phase, this is done without burning. Other than that, the only real dps requirement is Netherbian Swarm, and that's pretty low. Enrage on Primal was increased to 35 minutes, so that's not really about dps so much as proper event management. For another reference, most top tier guilds should be putting out at least 35m on Shei, depending on your makeup, this being the shortest fight in the expansion.
Our FTK of AHR was pretty ugly because of some early deaths but it was ~12 minutes into the enrage timer. None of the fights that felt like they had a DPS check element this xpac had hard enrage timers that were instant wipes, they've all been soft enrages that could be overcome with tight execution on tanking / healing / DPS swaps. I'd also personally disagree about saving all burns for later phases on CtG. If you still have 2-3 stonegrabbers alive when wave 2 spawns you're probably screwed. Plus in a lower DPS guild even your longer burns are mostly gonna have time to repop before the last bit. Where are y'all usually burning? light/dark servants?
a lot of it comes down to how your groups in the raid function together with coordinated ADPS/Burns associated raid strat and general player performance across the board. but a broad overview my opinion is as follows. S = 45m-55m+ i would say this is top 10 guilds on good nights with no lag and proper attendance. will typically only see the higher (55ish+) on events like Shei Vinitras where you can essentially just burn from 100-0 tank n spank type event in like 5-10 minutes A = 30m+ i would say this is the average rank of the top 10 or so guilds via EGL B = 20m+ C = 15m D = sub 15m struggle bus central were only handful of players are actually contributing and your experiencing the entire event in all its crushing mechanic penalties as the dead weight patiently waits for loot and the top 8 or so players are heavy breathing and sweating from dragging the boat anchors across the finish line lol.
If you survived 15 minutes into enrage on AHR one of two things happened, you either had a godlike kiting team or you were actually killing off the adds. With the more likely scenario, you had several partial wipes early and recovered, your actual dps wasn't that bad, it was just execution in the earlier parts of the fight. Your actual dps potential wasn't as low as a guild that would have to survive 15 minutes while putting together a clean fight. With CtG, there are plenty of reasons to burn for safety purposes. Yes, clearing a darkness to reduce the chance of getting double AEs after warp, or quick killing Pli Liako so you don't risk the chance of dealing with the aura. Granted, you are correct, if you burn at the start because you don't have enough dps for the first phase, you will have burns back up after 50% to shorten the time where a missed emote can wipe the raid. The point of this isn't to say that these things cannot be accomplished, it's just that if your mostly full raid isn't putting out these numbers for dps, they probably are also not strong enough as a force to handle the repercussions of not having enough dps. Low manning the events is another discussion entirely. I'm fully aware that every event in the expansion could be done with less than 40 people if they are all very good players with the correct class makeup.
If I remember right it was less our execution and more multiple sets of golems deciding to start moving with no gap, lol. This might be a hot take, but not *every* player in a top10 guild is able to consistently perform event mechanics at the level of consistency that low DPS guilds have to in order to beat events. They make up for it by having rock solid DPS. High DPS and consistent success on mechanics have a good bit of overlap, but the venn diagram for them wouldn't be a perfect circle. edit: To the main point I'm getting at. If a guild is struggling to beat ToL events, yes work on your DPS. But the whole guild buying in to executing emotes and movement as their first priority + a tank/healer team that can flex to kiting/tanking additional adds as needed can also overcome a shortage on the raw damage front.
Event timers make it more difficult to finish the raid the longer you spend in one particular event attempt. Kill the baddy in the face hard enough and you don't have to deal with that.
Ehhh, event enrage timers aren't as much of an issue as the pure number of mechanics you have to deal with. If you can burn through the Raven phase on CtG you don't need to deal with 9 people getting light/dark emotes over and over again. I think the bane mobs are timer rather than % based, so less of those waves too.
That's the catch though, isn't it? If you can burn through it... If your raid org/guild doesn't have the DPS, then you're not just burning through things and you're playing the full mechanics instead, dealing with deaths/rezzes, and eventually the enrage timer. We never once burned through Sontalak, for example. We played the full event every single time. Svann2 said, "I cant even remember an event that was lost due to not having enough dps" I can. My raid org being a conglomeration of family guilds and not a highly-selective raid guild which means that our DPS isn't always primo. Eventually, it's "enough" once the expansion's old enough for gear and AAs to have been accumulated, but it's slow going at one raid night per week. We've hit the enrage timer(s) on pretty much every event that has one and it's been our undoing on many occasions. We've also simply kept rezzing in/running back and did whatever it took for first-time wins. We're stubborn like that.
Case in point: Our first win of AHR was with 18MM raid DPS (clipping in the low 20s before things got bad late), where people say you need about 23MM DPS to win it.
